Spring RTS Engine

This game I've been looking forward to anxiously has just been released in North America. It was released some months previously in Japan to, if I recall, fairly good reviews. IIRC that famous Japanese game magazine whose name escapes me (but reminds me of "famicom") gave it good marks.

The game, from what I was able to gather from previews, translated reviews, and import reviews, seemed to draw heavy inspiration from some of my favourite games. To be specific, Star Control 2, Imperium Galactica 1/2, and Space Rangers 1/2. So you can imagine, I was pretty wound-up and terribly afraid that the game wouldn't measure up.

All of the above games are legendary to PC gamers... at least, if you've heard of them. (Does that make sense?) They were at virtually the pinnacle of game development at their time and despite technical limitations they still stand as great examples of innovative, player-driven gameplay.

All of this leads up to me having very, very high expectations and basically being set up for disappointment like a cow on a conveyor system.

So, I've had Infinite Space for a few days now. Does it measure up? Let me answer that in the form of my total gameplay time according to my save file. Of the approximately 80 hours that have passed since I got the game, 55 hours and 20 minutes have been spent playing. That's not counting any time that goes unrecorded because I die or fail an important mission.

The game really, really goes above and beyond anything I expected. For one thing, as you may have deduced, it's quite long and I feel very satisfied with how far my money has stretched compared to if, for example, I'd bought some $70 console FPS and got 5 hours of gameplay out of it or something.

I don't know how much more there is to do, as I've been playing slowly and enjoying the experience. I really love this game so far and I think it's worth not merely just a purchase but sharing with others, that's my I'm posting this. We're all geeks here so I think many of you would find this game very enjoyable.

Let me put it this way, for my particular taste at least, if I knew how good this game was but hadn't actually played it yet, I'd buy a DS just to play it. Even though I've played it for as long as I have, I haven't found myself needing to "grind" for cash for upgrades very much, maybe two hours in total spread out over the other fifty-three. I don't have the very best ships and equipment, mind you.

Take mixed and negative reviews you read with a grain of salt; this game is very long, is part of an exceptionally rare genre, doesn't play well when rushed through for a deadline, and I've read things in reviews for this game that are just blatantly, obviously wrong.

I suspect many reviewers simply rushed through the game as fast as they possibly could and gave up on playing the game to completion when they began to realize how large it was. This is especially bad since the game seems to be constantly throwing new things at you and it just seems to keep getting better. If all these things were available at the beginning, it would probably lead to better reviews but much less rewarding gameplay.


In conclusion:

The developers have brilliantly succeeded at translating a what could easily be called a PC game experience not just to a console, but to a handheld of all things. However, it's still very much a PC game and there's a TON of depth, not to mention way too much information to put on a DS screen without it looking like a spreadsheet. A tiny, tiny spreadsheet. Some things are needlessly difficult to find and/or comprehend, others aren't available when you need them, and others are just hidden altogether. The game is not without its flaws, but in the whole it is an overwhelming success.

I could go on longer but I know I'm already at about the TL;DR threshold for many of you. If you have questions, like about how combat works specifically or whatever, just ask.


Other notes:


+++ The depth of the real-time combat system reminds me of Starfleet Command more than your typical "attack/magic/defend/escape" JRPG
-- The complexity of this system will probably lead people to initially think it is very hard, very stupid, very simple, or way too complex; it's actually quite well-balanced and even when I try things that seem like they'd be a likely exploit, they tend to bite me in the ass later

++ Huge number of ship designs, each with a unique internal structure that limits what sorts of things it can hold
- Unless I'm missing something, there's no way not know what a ship's internal structure looks like without buying one (save->buy->good/bad?->load)
- Lots of those ships are very similar or just plain not useful in most situations; however, just because you own a ship doesn't mean it has to be actively in your fleet at all times

++ Great variety in internal components, you arrange them into your ship sort of like a tetris-block puzzle
- It is not always immediately apparent what some components are used for, and formulas to determine some important things are hidden
+/- Personally I enjoy this "puzzle" element a lot, figuring out where to put what; other people may easily find it tedious

++ Crewmembers really strongly contribute not only to your fleet's performance depending on how they're assigned, but also to the game's story
+ I am a grammar nazi and I've only spotted one typo so far, but there have been a couple of odd conversation bugs; these did not have any detrimental effect on gameplay
- At least one crew member is, uh... well, there are odd situations...

++ Multiple modes of exploration and combat
- These may not be your cup of tea
+ Lots of them are optional and can be skipped
- Others can't
+ Clever use of ship modules and crew assignments can make troublesome parts of the game a lot easier if need be

++ Hold down one of the trigger buttons to put the game into turbo mode and skip through cutscenes, dialogue, transitions, and almost anything else that might irritate you... GENIUS

--- RANDOM ENCOUNTERS
++++ WHICH CAN BE SKIPPED!!!!
- ...usually
- HOLY SHIT IT'S A LION-CLASS BATTLESHIP ON A NO-RETREAT BATTLE

+/- Difficulty level can be a bit inconsistent as a result of the game's (variably) free-roaming nature; this presents a challenge without making you feel like everyone's leveling up alongside you ALA Oblivion

+++ I am consistently impressed with the cinematics and presentation on the DS's limited hardware
++ No really, I've said out loud several times "I can't believe I'm playing a game like this on a DS"
++ I'm serious
- Some touchscreen controls, like list scrolling, are too sensitive, but you can just use the d-pad instead in this case

---- Unfortunately the DS's screen size and resolution might make the interface seem cluttered
++ That said, in many places the developers did a simply outstanding job displaying so much information in such a limited space
--- But at other times there's information you really need to know and it's hidden or difficult to find

----- Objectives are difficult to keep track of and you will frequently find yourself unsure where someone wants you to go since there's no large-scale multi-system map or search function anywhere

+++ The story up to this point has been actually quite good and even surprises me at times

+++ Not a lot of stock characters, and the main character is actually not a total douche despite being a recipe for typical JRPG/anime angst-douchiness

I would be so farking excited about this if it weren't for the fact that Disgaea has utterly burned me out on the whole freaking RPG genre.

Well keep it on your shortlist. It's not really your typical RPG though, as I said it reminds me a lot more of a Starfleet Command type game, only a hell of a lot better in terms of story, customization, etc, etc, everything else, etc.

For example, in a given space combat here are SOME of the things you might have to think about:
- Your own and your enemy's weapon recharge time (you can see both)
- Your own and your enemy's weapon minimum and maximum firing range
- Your own and your enemy's fighters and anti-air capabilities
- Your crew's fatigue level
- The enemy race's weapon specialties that may render some of your weapons ineffective
- Fleet formations, which affect weapon accuracy
- What type of attack or defense to use (barrage triples firepower by can be easily dodged if your enemy sees it coming)
- Special/unique attacks/powers that your first officer and flagship provide

Actually, now that I think about it, the combat is more complex than Starfleet Command games except for one thing. In SFC you move in two dimensions, while in Infinite Space you can only move forward and back. But that's just the actual combat itself - behind the scenes in things like ship design there's so much more to do in Infinite Space that there's just no comparison at all.

It's really quite a clever and well-implemented system, and it's as deep as you want it to be. If you're satisfied to just grind though battles hitting the attack button constantly, that'll probably work most of the time but you'll get trashed on a regular basis by fighters, barrage attacks, attrition, long range weapons, etc. Or, for example you could buy only ships that are highly maneuverable and build training modules to enhance your crew's maneuvering skill, making expensive armor less important. Or you could make a fleet of heavy carriers with some "tanks" at the front to soak up the damage. Or you could just hit "escape" all the time and avoid most combat. I'm just scratching the surface here.

What floors me is this: I'm now upwards of 60 hours into the game and there are whole broad areas of things that I haven't even seen yet. I just went through the help menu and noticed there's a ton of gray areas indicating things that haven't been discovered or unlocked yet. I was also upgrading my heavy carrier and just on a whim I hit the "filter" button to select what kinds of fighters I wanted to be displayed for purchase. I was expecting "strike", "interceptor", "multi-role". Instead I got "Size 1", "Size 2", "Size 3". Sizes? There are OTHER SIZES?! I've only seen size 1! Oh shit, another filter button, what's it sort... What the hell's a "platform"?! I can launch platforms?!

in Infinite Space you can only move forward and back

INFINITE SPACE

You sir, are dead to me.

edit: Just in case you weren't 100% trolling, actual galaxy movement is through fully 3D space and there's about a bajillionjillion planets n stuff.

or 30 planets just reskinned and having a random colour generator?

not 100% as I loved SC2.
But I do not have a DS and the idea of games more complex than tetris on a handheld console/phone is lost to me.
So approximately 85% troll.

oh goody i was just rummaging through my old games seeing which games inspired me to play it again for the 50th time (pikmin 2 didn't last too long, it was a great game the first time though)

i can't remember the last time i bought a console/handheld game D:, time to put those dusty gamestop gift cards to use :D.

Spawn_Retard wrote:or 30 planets just reskinned and having a random colour generator?

In reality there are only so many different things a planet can be primarily composed of. Even then, there are requirements for the atmosphere's composition and tectonic properties in order for a human civilization to exist. So if you're asking whether planets you visit are rocks surrounded by an atmosphere and with buildings on the surface, yes, they're all very similar in that regard but they aren't just a different hue or something.

What they look like isn't important though, the reason for all the planets is that there's stuff to do on a lot of them - unique quests to be done, unique bases to be raided, unique stores with unique inventories to visit, intel to find, people to talk to, ship members to recruit, training facilities, artifacts, scientific labs, embassies, shipyards...

video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5QSclrIdlE

Sheekel wrote:video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5QSclrIdlE

wrong thread.

*whistles* 71 hours and 37 seconds. That's 64 cents per hour of entertainment!

Good story, good writing, fights don't get a chance to get repetitive since you're always facing new enemies with different strengths, several branching plot points where you can pick sides in a conflict so there's (some) added replayability, overall a great game on any platform but a remarkable title for the DS because of how deep it is.

I can't count the number of times I was genuinely surprised by finding something that made me think "they could have just left this out and the game would have still been everything It was supposed to be".

For example, I won't be specific so it doesn't ruin it, but part of the game itself turns into an oversexed killing machine if you use it excessively.

Right now a handful of rushed negative reviews are bringing down the game's average a lot, I'm going to be really angry if there's no sequel if it doesn't sell well.

well i've played this game for like an hour and a half, and i have a few questions:

1) why will an enemy always dodge when i do a barrage, and always do normal when i dodge?
2)when i fire a barrage, 90% of the time the enemy will be dodging, 9% (when they're not dodging) EVERY SINGLE SHOT I FIRE MISSES. the other 1% i manage to do damage, but not significantly more than a sucesful normal attack, which, at least, are usually successful EDIT: i take that back, that's also something that only applies to enemies, my normals miss >50% of the time
3)when an enemy does a barrage, why does every single shot always hit me (when i'm not dodging, which is 90% of the time)

another thing that annoys the hell out of me is that it doesn't show the maximum range of ALL your weapons, or their minimum range, so often you find yourself firing a barrage, but only half of your guns actually fire.
so far, this game has been an

Caydr wrote:overwhelming success

at pissing me off.
and i'm only at the first boss.

well, i beat the first boss, and i was about to say perhaps it wasn't so bad, that you can get used to predicting what your enemy will do and adapting well enough...

until i ran into a normal battle (which i couldn't escape) against a team of three ships, the first of which takes out half my HP with a NORMAL attack and is IMPOSSIBLE to hit with barrage, never mind if it's dodging or not, and can only be hit with a normal attack IF it's dodging, and then MAYBE you could score one hit.
the other two? i haven't faced them yet.
fucking ridiculous.

If you're already past the problem you were having (sorry it's been a couple days and I was no help when you needed it) I'd like to hear how you're doing now.

In the order in which you asked:

1) why will an enemy always dodge when i do a barrage, and always do normal when i dodge?

An enemy will always dodge when you do a barrage because they can tell you're about to do it. How? Notice on your touchscreen that when you select which enemy ship in the formation you want to target, there is also a small side-view picture of the enemy ship. Its outline color indicates what level your enemy's command gauge is at. You can use this to make a pretty good guess what they're going to try to do - if it's been yellow for a few seconds but they're not firing, they might be either in dodge mode or preparing to fire a barrage. In either case, you are probably safest to go into dodge mode yourself.

HOWEVER the thing is, the enemy can also tell YOUR gauge level and is making exactly the same sort of guess about you. If he sees you go into the yellow gauge for a split second then back into green, you've almost certainly just gone into dodge mode! So he thinks, "time for a normal attack, sucker!" The AI doesn't cheat, it's just pretty good at using the information it has. In a little while you'll figure out how to trick it into doing exactly the worst possible thing it could do... it just takes a bit of experience.

2)when i fire a barrage, 90% of the time the enemy will be dodging, 9% (when they're not dodging) EVERY SINGLE SHOT I FIRE MISSES. the other 1% i manage to do damage, but not significantly more than a sucesful normal attack, which, at least, are usually successful

This is because the enemy can see that you've been completely passive for about 10 seconds and you're about to reach the red point on your command gauge. How can you tell they're in dodge mode without firing a barrage? Watch for their command gauge going into yellow then back into green. Early in the game this almost certainly indicates they've hit "dodge", giving you a great opportunity to, as you say, follow up with some now-critical normal attacks.

EDIT: i take that back, that's also something that only applies to enemies, my normals miss >50% of the time

If your normals are missing a lot, make sure that you're within your ships' ideal attack range - it's indicated at the top of the top screen, where the position of yours and your enemy's fleets are. There will be a little line that moves at the same time as your fleet indicator - this is showing your ideal attack range. You can extend your ideal attack range by installing a radar on one of your ships. IIRC you do not need radar on all your ships, the effect is shared, but watch out for your radar ship's health. Other things such as your installed weapons' accuracy, your assigned "artillery" crewmen's skill, and accuracy-boosting ship modules will boost your accuracy greatly. You're just starting out so don't expect any pistol sniping for a little bit

3)when an enemy does a barrage, why does every single shot always hit me (when i'm not dodging, which is 90% of the time)

I would guess that the enemy is simply better-equipped than you and so has better accuracy. Remember though that being hit with regular attacks while in dodge mode is nowhere near as dangerous as being hit with a full barrage while not dodging. Getting hit with normals while dodging simply increases the change of getting hit a little and means that hits ignore your armor (which at this point is quite low anyway), always doing full damage.

In other words, a normal attack while dodging might be 100 damage times 5 hits or whatever, while a barrage will be 80 damage times 15 hits. You sir, are dead.

Finally, the way your ships are positioned in your fleet affects both your own accuracy and your enemy's. The further back they are, the less likely you'll be able to hit your enemy, and the less likely your enemy will be to hit you. Later on you'll want your carriers near the back, utility ships and maybe flagship in the middle, and some big guns up front.

another thing that annoys the hell out of me is that it doesn't show the maximum range of ALL your weapons, or their minimum range, so often you find yourself firing a barrage, but only half of your guns actually fire.

This is displayed on the top screen, it's the little icons that turn red or blue. You WILL need to plan ahead while you're designing your ship though to make sure you can make best advantage of your firing opportunities. Try to get, for example, your best weapons all with a range of 18000 or better, and a bunch of lower-end weapons with a range of 14000 or less for emergencies when you need more firepower. Some enemies will have weapons that are only useful at short range, meaning you can beat them to death without ever getting shot at, while others are only useful at long range. So it's good to have about half and half of both.

until i ran into a normal battle (which i couldn't escape) against a team of three ships ...

I take it this was after you left the first system? I hope you saved first. In any case, the first system is kind of like a playpen, things outside are much more dangerous. I've heard of some people having a lot of difficulty as soon as they get outside, but others don't have the same problems. I personally don't recall having such a bad time of it, but it was a while ago. It might just a matter of familiarity with the genre.

Some tips if the problem comes immediately after entering the new system:
- Immediately proceed to the nearest spaceport planet and save. This will save you frustration of course but more importantly will get your crew back to 0% fatigue, making you much more battle-worthy.
- Try putting the longest-ranged weapons you can on your ship and fire, retreat, forward, fire, retreat, forward, fire, etc.
- If that's no good, maybe try flying right down their throat and see if they have less effectiveness at short range.
- Almost all "no retreat" fights are just sort of mini-boss random battles and you just happened to get into a fight with one of them when you're at your most vulnerable. IIRC within a matter of a few minutes you'll probably be much more powerful than you were when you first entered the new system.
- Put more/better people into "artillery" crew positions. The difference between crewed and uncrewed firepower/accuracy is huge.
- Try equipping newer/better modules.
- Double-check that you're attacking ships in the front of their formation, you take like a 50% accuracy hit if you try to target the second row, and it feels like 90% or worse on the third row.

If you continue to have a hard time, view this minor non-story-related hint, just a good place to make your way to ASAP for a pretty decent free firepower upgrade:

Make your way to Nezhatin's tavern and talk to the old fart.

If this doesn't help, please give me a bit more detail about what your situation is and I'm sure I can get your past it. The learning curve is a bit steep, I know, but I promise you the game's more than worth the trouble of the initial difficulties you're having.

Since you heard of this game because of my recommendation, if you can't get the hang of it even after really trying I'll buy it off you.

well... tl;dr (cause i got past it)
it was targeting the ship at the back of the enemy fleet lolol. yeah... i fail, but i got past most of the problems i mentioned

hard game though, steep learning curve

I'm glad to hear you're having a better time of it now and I hope you get at some fraction of the enjoyment out of it that I did at least.

too fucking hard
how am i supposed to defeat a fleet of five ships after having traveled 16k miles? they can do 2 normals (which is enough to kill my flagship) by the time i have enough gauge whatever to dodge, which if i don't, they'll just do a barrage (which kills my entire fleet of three ships).

I think I know where you are. Are you rescuing two individuals? That fight was frustrating for me as well until I figured a couple things out.

1) You only need to rescue one right away. Actually I think there's only one point in the game when you need to actually hurry when you're told to do something in a rush - there aren't any timers on most things.

2) Feel free to fight a battle, then go back to repair before proceeding further.

3) Due to... let's say space-time... quantums... You only ever take damage once from passing through a given asteroid field. From then on, your ships don't take damage, whether they have a deflector or not.

4) Are you installing livability modules at all? Sickbays, security stations, and other similar parts will allow you to travel much farther without fatigue building up too fast. A good cook is a lifesaver too.

actually no i'm fighting Balik (2nd time). yes i have installed livability modules (mostly on my flagship though, should i put them on the other ships as well?) i don't have any crew on livability tasks though...