TES: Oblivion < Fable: The Lost Chapters (PC)

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 20 Nov 2006, 02:29

I don't know how far through Fable I am, but I think I still have a ways to go. I just rescued the Archeologist from a horde of baddies in red. Anyways...

This game, IMO, is vastly superior to Oblivion in many important ways. In some ways, Oblivion was better. For instance, oblivion had bigger, better cities, but... meh. There were only like 3 places you'd ever go in any city. The rest was just realism, not that I've got any problem with that.

So far, the things I like about Fable:

Archery is actually pretty realistic, comparatively. In Oblivion, bow&arrow was actually LESS powerful than regular weapons, until you became an elite sniper, and even then you were pretty weak - far weaker than you'd be if you'd become an elite swordsman. In Fable, though, archery is a more powerful ability, but only until enemies get close enough to strike you - this is very logical IMO. For instance, a single hit from a fully-charged (until the bowstring is completely tight) arrow will kill many low-level enemies. 2-5 hits is enough to take down most anything else. But in Fable, the designers haven't made the models so detailed that you can only get one enemy onscreen! No, in Fable, you're likely to be in battles of 10+ enemies regularly!

Also, Fable has a much more robust close-combat system. Instead of just "attack" and "block", there's attack, block, roll, and a lock-on system that allows you to sidestep if you're careful. You'll be needing that roll ability, since bunnyhopping isn't possible here.

The story of Fable is much stronger, IMO. There are fewer side-quests, and these are basically just ways to get cash and build your reputation, rather than full-blown Oblivion-style quests. But as a result, the game pulls you in a lot better since the main campaign has had more work put into it.

Fable isn't completely open-ended like Oblivion. Just running around doing quests and finding places to explore will get boring VERY fast. But there is a good/evil system, and a few things that I've never seen before. For instance, you can buy houses and rent them out for a moderate, regular profit. You can also marry people. (yeah, guys too. Blehhhh) Everything you wear (including tatoos and hairstyles) increases or decreases your attractiveness and scariness - I haven't really experimented with what these do for you though.

Lockpicking and theft is another aspect I like a lot better. It's just a timer, not some irritating "buy 100 lockpicks from all the fences every couple days because you'll 20 of them every time you attempt a door. OR JUST GET THE SKELETON KEY AND RENDER THE WHOLE SYSTEM USELESS." If you're not noticed in the time it takes to lockpick or steal something, it's now yours.

The weapon system is simpler, basically there's just 5 tiers of various types of weapon, each more powerful than the last. Simple, but it makes little difference anyway, since there were only one or two kinds of weapon that were good to have in Oblivion anyway. The magic system is much simpler, but with more interesting types of spells. Rather than being able to make your own spells, there's just a wide variety to pick from, many of which are just plain cool beyond words, and seem like things out of something like Jedi Knight or something.

Inventory management is very simple. There's no maximum carrying capacity. To wear a certain thing, you select the body part, equip what you want to wear, and you're done, much like Oblivion. One thing I found disappointing is that there's no way to pick presets of weapons/equipment based on the situation. For instance, a way to have a bunch of clothes/armor in set A, while having an entirely different set in set B, and be able to switch between them as the situation warrants it.

I haven't figured out what good a lot of Fable's "expressions" are good for, but there's a lot of them. Basically they're animated emotes you can have your character make, much like something you'd expect out of MMORPGs. But NPCs don't seem to react noticably to most of them.

Oblivion's and Fable's graphics are roughly on par with each other, in my opinion. They both use HDR and lots of stuff like that, but each game also has a lot of really good, unique effects. Fable, IMO, has more of these, and they're better looking.

Unlike oblivion, where enemies basically just charge at you and that's the extent of the AI, Fable's enemies seem to actually try to surround you and work together. It's a little more difficulty, and it's very welcome.

Fable puts me in mind of what Knights of the Old Republic would've been like if it had been a first-person rather than traditional RPG.

Another thing I like is that there seems to be very little "roll of the dice" stuff, which I've always hated. An attack will always hit, unless the defender dodges or blocks it. No "critical hits" or "critical misses".

Oblivion featured VERY little group combat, mainly because this sort of thing is where its gameplay pretty much fell apart. Fable is vastly superior in this regard. If you have a good enough reputation, you can just walk up to a bunch of guys you want to help you and say "follow me" and they'll gladly do so. Lead them into combat, and they won't just cluster and crappy-pathfind to death. NPCs aren't nearly as powerful as you of course, but they are very good helpers. Since they're not fragile (mostly) they can, at the very least, be a good distraction while you line up your perfect headshot.

Fable's only weak point, IMO, is its lack of customization. Your character will always appear the same, and you can't enchant your armor or weapons with various effects.

So, if you've finished Oblivion, or it's finished you, Fable should be the next one on the list. Or if you've never played Oblivion, but enjoyed games like Jedi Knight or Knights of the Old Republic, get Fable right away.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 20 Nov 2006, 03:37

Interesting you mentioned the combat system, because that was basically the reason that I didn't pick up the game. It makes me a little fearful of what bethesta will do to Fallout, which was the game it was in large part due to the coolness of the weapons and how they felt.

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 20 Nov 2006, 03:39

Do NOT make me get started on how much Oblivion's archery is good...

It makes me angry. Very angry...

Erom · Post by **Erom** » 20 Nov 2006, 03:47

I noticed Fable had just been marked down while out shopping today. I know my friend played and loved it - it struck me as sort of Zelda like, honestly. Action-adventure rather than pure RPG. So comparing it and oblivion... not exactly apples and oranges, but maybe green apples to red apples? Either way, perhaps I'll put it on the list for the holidays.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 20 Nov 2006, 07:48

Comparing Oblivion to Fable, to put it bluntly, is like comparing the ocean to a inch deep pool. Fable has a fairly enjoyable plot and few side quests. Oblivion has a fairly enjoyable EPIC plot with over a hundred of side quests (And most of those are really cool. Reuniting missing twins, slipping a poison apple into someone's dish, thwarting the Necromancers and so on and so forth). Fable's combat is slightly better than Oblivion...but thats kind of pointless because Dark Messiah blows them both away so thoroughly in the combat arena that it's not even funny. Also the thing about Oblivion is if you see something you can go to it. In Fable, if you see something you can go to it. The main difference is in Oblivion you can see thousands of things at a time. In Fable you can see...five at a time.

This is not to say Fable is bad. Not by a long shot. Fable was VERY enjoyable and I loved it. Then I read the hype Peter ├óÔé¼┼ôExaggerated├óÔé¼┬Ø Molenxue put out. If HALF the things he said were going to be in the game than Oblivion would be a pale shadow by comparison. And then there are the mods. In the first three weeks of Oblivion's release literally THOUSANDS of mods were released on the Internet. Yes, most of them were only so so...but now there are millions and thousands of those are high quality, game altering mods. They add entire races, new areas, new dungeons, spanking new items. Think there's a problem in Oblivion (which there are many, actually)? Find a mod! Make a mod! Do something! Think there's a problem in Fable (which there are many, actually)?

Well...you CAN import new tattoos and pray for a patch. But other than that you're a bit sunk.

So in my opinion Fable < Oblivion....</= Dark Messiah (my new fave first person Action RPG ever...but this is not a Dark Messiah is great thread)

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 20 Nov 2006, 07:56

To end this discussion, I shall put this bluntly.

Traditional RPG > Computer RPG

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 20 Nov 2006, 08:00

Well it's the difference between imagination and computerization...infinte. I think Neddi wins...

Ishach · Post by **Ishach** » 20 Nov 2006, 08:07

Despite being a big fan of pc RPGs neither of these games really stuck with me.

I really didnt like the story of fable, its a while since I played it but I vaugely remember the quests feeling tedious, and I didnt feel involved with the world/plot at all. I also seem to remember that the battles were all just timing your attacks and dodges in a pattern till the opponent was dead, or just exploiting some flaw in how the mob moves to kill them.

That being said I didnt particularly like oblivion either, possibly cause I decide d to just play without constantly quicksaving and loading every time something went wrong. First thing I did getting out of Kvatch was to steal an imperial guard's horse, and then spending the rest of the game with a huge bounty and spent the rest of the game running through towns to do some quest so fast I didnt get caught by guards.

Theres only one pc rpg you'll ever need though.

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 20 Nov 2006, 09:16

I still cant believe how they managed to make oblivion combat so crappy, I mean when you hit something it doesnt feel like you connect atall, I tired of Oblivion after about 10 - 15 hours, the archery was so shit its unbelievable, takes like 20 arrows to kill even the weakest enemies, not fun, and those 3 damn same voice actors.... arrrgghhh.
The assasins guild missions were super cool though.

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 20 Nov 2006, 12:02

just wait until you finish fable and see if it's still good, because it turns out theres only 1 class in the game and the entire path of being good and evil is moot when you get up to one point where you just choose to be 100% evil or good.

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 20 Nov 2006, 14:14

Unfortunately, Oblivion is nothing compared to Morrowind. Obviously Oblivion has the vastly superior engine and graphics and stuff but as far as immersion goes, I lost a year of my life (literally) to Morrowind. I agree with some criticisms of Oblivion, and disagree with others, and have my own criticisms (for instance, the fact that there are only 4 guilds/clans/houses you can join - Fighter, Mage, Thief, Assassin; as opposed to Morrowind, where you have the Fighter/Mage/Thief/Assassin guilds, Hlaalu, Redoran and Telvanni; the Temple; The Imperial Guard; the Imperial Cult; even Vampire clans (3 of them!). Gameplay in Oblivion is also far more bland, repetetive and predictable. For instance, even though according to Lore there are only 2 known full sets of Daedric armour known in the entire world, once you get to level 30, every dungeon/cave/ruin you go into, is filled with enemies in full Daedric armour.

Also I'm starting to wonder if any of you complaining about archery actually had characters with a good archery skill... granted, the stronger enemies need lots of arrows (they also need lots of smacks with swords, so what?) but if you play the right attributes and skills, and sneak around a lot, you can pwn enemies from afar.

Also, there is a dodge ability in Oblivion (I think it'd tied in with Acrobatics skill; holding block and jumping in whichever direction will do an avoidance roll).

Anyway one of the greatest things that sets Oblivion apart is that each and every aspect of it can and has been modded. Morrowind had a fuckton of mods, everything from massive quests that rivalled the main quest, to one that added literally 300 brand new animals and creatures (everything from pigs to chickens, dragons and everything inbetween), and Oblivion is shaping up the same. I've become attached to a particular mod, Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul (OOO) that basically re-writes gameplay entirely and makes it a lot more like Morrowind (for instance, more frequent random spawnings of expensive stuff in crates, random enemy equipment and level, everything costing more (and selling for more), interactive bartering with merchants that have 10 x more gold, etc etc)

Anyway,

Morrowind > Oblivion > Fable

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 20 Nov 2006, 14:24

i liked morrowind tonnes, oblivion is far more dumbed down.
fact is though that morrowinds combat was crap and its quests were crap.
olivion is far simpler, but its much more fun.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 20 Nov 2006, 15:17

I found Oblivion to be much more immersive than Oblivion. Sure there are less quests and factions, but they have much more depth to them. Or at least it seemed that way to me...

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 20 Nov 2006, 16:38

I couldn't get into morrowind, once again because of the combat system. So what if they offer a free reign world? Your interface with that world is the most boring and klunky character that doesn't really have any physical impact at all. If I have to play a game dominant on real time melee combat it has to be something done in an interesting way, like Dark Messiah did (or even the old might of magic games for that matter)

I LOTHE these PC RPGs where you stand around hitting things with a sword for two and a half years. Being in first person doesn't make it any better.

This is the reason I loved fallout, shoot something and you frigging knew it got shot, often because of the guts exploding out of it.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 20 Nov 2006, 16:42

Thats true with Fallout...my favoret death animation was the flamethrower.

LOrDo · Post by **LOrDo** » 20 Nov 2006, 16:49

Zoombie wrote:I found Oblivion to be much more immersive than Oblivion. Sure there are less quests and factions, but they have much more depth to them. Or at least it seemed that way to me...

[/b]

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 20 Nov 2006, 17:25

Thats what I get for typing at 11:00 with no sleep in a few days...

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 20 Nov 2006, 17:42

Alrightie, I'll explain archery.

Lesson 1 : Learn how to hit a damn target!

Once you hit level 75 with archery, things should be hard right? Wrong! You just gained a new weapon, a very powerful one. It only hits when you hit, but not all the time. Knocking an enemy down is an easy way to let loose several shafts. Not to mention, missing means more fetching for arrows. Once level 100, hitting becomes even more important, you can paralyze or knock them down!

Lesson 2 : Weapon to fall back on?

You need a sword. A Sword! Not a dagger. Daggers are bad, and weak. If you play your skills right, you should be able to do about equivalent damage with 2-3 arrows to one sword swing, if not, raise your Marksmanship. It should be less, if you can get it so. Enchantments help if you can't find a good sword, or don't have enough strength.

Lesson 3 : Poison those bastards!

Poison is my best friend in the field. So many different kinds, and most archers should be able to make them, also. They range from paralyzing to sapping agility. A well used poison (Paralyze, anyone?) can easily set enemies into a spiral to hell. They fall and hit the ground, chop 'em up with a sword, or let fly more shafts.

Lesson 4 : Sneaky Bastards are Smart Bastards!

More damage, less chance of them finding you, a good setup for an assassin, no reason not to have sneak as one of your skills. Shoot someone, run away, repeat. Sneaking also allows you to kill most weaker creatures in one shot.

Utilizing all of this allowed me to go through Oblivion nice and fine, no reason for you people not to either!

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 20 Nov 2006, 17:53

what the hell? level 100? Ive been playing it for like 30 hours and by not sleeping much im still level 7 and like the king of the arcane university.
if only you could summon multuple beasties at once..

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 20 Nov 2006, 18:18

Fable lacks one thing that makes it fail when compared to oblivion, and that is replayablility.. you cannot replay Fable, it has about 20 total quests (they may have added more in the PC version) out fo those 20ish quests 16-18 of them are directly tied to the main story plot. This means in essence every time you play fable, if you want to advance in levels at all, you will end up playing through the same damn 18 or so levels/quests. Then theres the fact that basically you get a ludicrous amount of XP in that game, enough so that by the end of the game, I had maximized, Strength, Mana, and Dexterity.. essentially I could use a sword, a bow, or magic if I wanted and Do nearly even amounts of damage in all 3. I saw no reason to replay the game, Id gotten access to fairly much every ability for the most part, and done all the quests, most of which are required...

While oblivion does have some problems, one of those is definately not a lack of replayability, you have many more class options available, and getting proficient in all of them, is nigh impossible for one character.. Add on top of that the fact that you can either do the main quest, or not, and even if you dont there are dozens of side quests of various length available, not to mention that you can get to a high level without doing the main quest.. that just basically makes it no contest in my opinion..

Spring RTS Engine

TES: Oblivion < Fable: The Lost Chapters (PC)

TES: Oblivion < Fable: The Lost Chapters (PC)