Spring RTS Engine

Background: In ota, when you had like +30 metal, that meant +30 metal/second. Same goes for energy. If you were making +30 and using -20, you still get 10 metal a second.

Problem: In spring, the resources do not work that way. I am not sure if anyone notices, but if you get like +10 metal, it goes up like +10 in 2-3 seconds. I am not sure how resources work, but I just know its not the same. In the ota res, the res per sec adds up to a huge difference btwn ota res and spring res. Is it different for a reason?

If it has been posted before, sorry.

It's been brought up before, but I agree. I've been playing since it came out and I still don't know what the hell the numbers mean. It's also a bit annoying that it doesn't show your full usage... for example, if you're making +50 and using 75, it'll just show -50... unless I'm really missing something here.

Hum, Spring show what you really produce and what you really use.
So if you are stalling, you can't produce 50 and use 75

I would like it too if Spring showed us what we were trying to drain instead of what we were really draining, but this has been brought up time and time again, hasn't it?

Well, I just want to really know what those numbers actually represent. Like +100 is +100 metal per? per what?

And yes, I definately want to see my actual usage so I can judge how much I'm stalling.

Like +200 and -200 isn't really an idea of how much your using.

+200 and - 300 isn't too bad of a stall.

+200 and -1500 is something different tho.

forbidin wrote: Like +200 and -200 isn't really an idea of how much your using.
+200 and - 300 isn't too bad of a stall.
+200 and -1500 is something different tho.

Back when I was still palying XTA I was having an energy stall and I couldn't figure out what was causing it. Turns out that I had 5 or so farks halping build a vulcan, draining 10k or so energy per sec all by them selves.

This feature alone was one reason I don't like to use XTA. It's so easy to kill your whole energy enoconemy using a FARK or two and not realize what is causing your problem.

PS: I'm not advocating AA, just trying to make a point. Please don't turn this into a mod flame war.

patmo98 wrote:This feature alone was one reason I don't like to use XTA. It's so easy to kill your whole energy enoconemy using a FARK or two and not realize what is causing your problem.

BANG! you got it.

Some clarification to what happens sometimes.

green +10 means you will add 10 resource to your storage per second.

red -10 mean you will use -10 from your storage (or from the +10 income) per second.

You can use the resource faster then you produce it, if you have it in storage.

That way when you have lets say, 1000 metal in storage, you can use -100 metal per second, even when you are not producing +100.

That will end... when
1000/(InstantIncome-InstantUsage)=t
1000[m]/90[m/s]=11.11

past the 11.11 seconds you will be able to use only what you are instantly producing, thus the use marker will show -10 metal.

NOW, what happens when you stall in both resources? HELL happens.

Your metal extractors stall in energy, and are not able to produce any metal, that way, the +10 will become +0, at some point... BUT...

somewhere is a formula leveling.. i mean.. you are producing metal and energy enough for feeding some production.

at the same time.. ... .. it depends on how much enery you can spend if you have +10 metal per second.

in the case of a metal maker for example, it is -60 energy, as it doesnt need the resource metal.

But some other stuff require metal and energy toguether.. and will continue to use energy when they take the +10 metal out of your resources.

Thus there is a "natural" leveling involved.

and one "artificial" leveling too. how? well im not sure.

whenever there is metal and energy stall, the engine has to "decide" what to feed.

for example if you have +300 energy, one mohomine and several other tasks, as building flashes, many other mexes, ...

where does spring put the energy it has?

the guess is it doesnt feed the moho, but will feed the smaller request first.

and there is a priority.

if you have the metal, but will stall in energy, the priority is taken by stuff being built. thus, mexes will be shut off.

but the real question is.

I had +95 metal, and +-3000 energy.

and had 1 commander, 1 fake commander, 1 adv const kbot, 1 const kbot, 2 farks.

all pushing zeuses as fast as they could.

WHY I STALLED ON METAL!... maybe they could use up all the +95/s!?!?!?!...

me retires to testing.

e: uh..

at peak time, the metioned builders use +-216 metal.

so that makes metal stall.

however..
1zeus=534metal.

10 zeuses were built in 56 seconds without stalling.

10*534/56=95.35...[m/s]
O_O
close enough for stalling in that situation.

and... if you have +96 metal, you will get +96 in the storage... after 30 frames.
it was mentioned somewhere spring runs at 30fps internally.. so 30 frames = 1 sec.
e2: well, i submitted the replay to FU.

in that replay, at start, there are very strange messages from the client.

like
Network errors in Cpregame
"unknown net msg client 20" 204 76 ...

Host a game on any map.

During game build like 3 solar and 3 mexes. you should be down to 500+ metal.

If say u are making +8 metal and using 0, watch out the resources go up. Its not 8 per second. Its more like 3 per second.

mongus wrote:

patmo98 wrote:This feature alone was one reason I don't like to use XTA. It's so easy to kill your whole energy enoconemy using a FARK or two and not realize what is causing your problem.

BANG! you got it.

Some clarification to what happens sometimes.

Thanks for the help. I understand the game. I just meant that the workertime of FARKs in XTA is 860 which very very high. I do know that this is balenced by cost. I'm not saying they are unfair.

The engine obviously prioritizes, with some interesting results. For example, if you're in combat... Energy gets allocated to shooting before building, apparantly. Maybe it's just the "smaller amount", but I'd like to hear about this more from somebody familiar with the Spring core.

Argh wrote:The engine obviously prioritizes, with some interesting results. For example, if you're in combat... Energy gets allocated to shooting before building, apparantly. Maybe it's just the "smaller amount", but I'd like to hear about this more from somebody familiar with the Spring core.

ive noticed that through time too.
Id like to know wich are the real priorities ..