Spring RTS Engine

edit: due to TL;DR I think people are skimming so I figured I's provide an executive summary as I post later on:

From the Wii we get motion/orientation sensing and buttons and pointing (with inferred spacial tracking)

From the Move we get spacial tracking and motion/orientation sensing and buttons and pointing

From the Kinect we get spacial tracking and full body tracking (with inferred motion/orientation)

I want spacial tracking and motion/orientation sensing and buttons and pointing and full body tracking (with inferred motion/orientation)

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Original Post

So, I have a Wii (soon will be selling it for a number of reasons, not the least of which being I haven't really played it much since getting the PS3... also I'm sorta banking on Nintendo having a new console out next Christmas and am worried it will devalue my wii overnight when they announce it...) and a PS3 and have been following the whole "Move"/"Kinect" thing in the news... Also, I really like the "idea" of 3D and feel like this might be the time for it to actually make it from novelty to practical...

What strikes me as the problem here is that everyone is copying everyone else, but because of thinks like patents and licencing issues they all have to re-invent the wheel... which from a technological advance standpoint is actually awesome... if Sony/Microsoft had just been able to get away with releasing their own WiiMotes then things wouldn't be ANY better off at all.

BUT if we combined all the advantages of all the gaming systems (and threw in some new ideas and some borrowed from the PC) then things could REALLY be awesome.

First, let's take all the tech thats sitting in the Wii Mote, the PS3 six-axis dual-shock 3 or whatever it's called and the new PS3 Move controllers and come up with some kind of unified "thing"... Then, take the Kinect multi-camera tracking thing and throw on 2 full HD cameras so it can take 3DHD video... then we're going to need something that can acctually push the 2x1080p at some decent frame-rate (60+ fps) to all these fancy new 3D TVs (though my personal preference would be Augmented reality glasses... which are 100 % possible but likely still prohibitively expensive)...

So you get the accuracy of spacial tracking provided by the Kinect augmented by buttons and the additional fine tuning accuracy of Wii/Move style controllers.

While we're at it we can use the Xbox Live model for game matching (with a bit of steam thrown in to the mix) and life integration...


Anyways... BLARGLEBLARGH

does anybody even want this "wave hands in front of TV" stuff?
does anybody even want steam-like systems, downloads and patches on a console?

knorke wrote:does anybody even want this "wave hands in front of TV" stuff?
does anybody even want steam-like systems, downloads and patches on a console?

Yes, and Yes... I desire both of those things.

Nope for me to both knorke.

Kinect is designed for people who find pressing buttons too hard.

Johannes wrote:Kinect is designed for people who find pressing buttons too hard.

True, but so is the Wii and Move... the difference is that we people who have less difficulty pressing buttons* can have the advantages of both...

* admittedly I still have trouble pressing the L1/R1 and L3/R3 buttons on the six-axis and the Z button on the GameCube controller

go play ms sen sen and get back to me on that sinbad

smoth wrote:go play ms sen sen and get back to me on that sinbad

I don't understand your statement, are you being sarcastic? are you indicating that the Wii sucks or is better then move or kinect? Are you referring to the fact that the wiimote and move controllers can be used as pointing devices while the kinect cannot... which now that you mention it actually makes them all the more superior to entirely controller-less interfaces (though I'm told the Kinect can actually track you "pointing at the screen" rather well... I think a pointing device would
improve it's accuracy...

I need more specificity if I am to defend my position or lack thereof.

You guys are not discussing his main point, which was actually excellent. The patent system, which was designed to help protect inventors, has grown into an outdated encumbered system for feeding patent trolls and killing innovation.

Remember invention = making something new. Innovation = inproving on existing imventions. Reinventing the wheel for every invention slows progress. Also, did I mention the patent trolls? D:

I am aware that PS3, Wii and XboX all must use different system for motion sensing. (infra red, camera, force sensor or w/e)
I just dont care about motion sensing if its used like "shake your controller in a jerk off motion faster then the other player to win!"
Which is 95%, 5% being rail shooters.

Since I've been buying more and more on Steam, I'd actually enjoy the Steam experience on a console.

But anyways, as for interface, I think the strongest feature of the Kinect isn't gameplay, but

1) Facial-recognition-based authentication. It will recognize you and load your preferences.

2) Controller-less menu navigation. Surfing channels with a wave of the hand sounds awesome.

As a game device? Don't give a damn. When MS releases their next gen of console which will obviously come bundled with Kinect? Absolutely, that would be the ultimate media centre.

As for the Move, to me the biggest asset is getting pointing-device gameplay onto an HD-quality console. Consoles being stuck with sticks instead of pointing devices has made console-based strategy gaming nearly impossible, and has hamstrung the FPS games with slower pacing and auto-aim. FPS gaming on the Wii is hella-fun, so getting a Wiimote-style device on a real platform sounds awesome.

However, like all peripherals, they'll face serious problems with adoption.

Does kinect track motion without any lag?

SinbadEV wrote:

smoth wrote:go play ms sen sen and get back to me on that sinbad

I don't understand your statement, are you being sarcastic?

I think you are just dodging because you are playing the wrong games. Use google, find videas stop acting like the point was obtuse

Gota wrote:Does kinect track motion without any lag?

I am neither an expert nor have I actually tried the kinect but I am told (by the internet) that there is a noticeable lag... though it is significantly reduced by only having a single target to track and good lighting to an imperceptible level... also there are indications that the issues are with hardware limitations to the tracking software rather then a fundamental limitation to the technology (aka, a better CPU or more efficient software could resolve the issue)

Got to agree with Smoth here. The wii's motion sensing is terrible and useless... but as a pointing device? Very fun.

I mean, the Wii is the *first* console in all these years to include a pointing device - essential for all the PC genres of gaming - as the default peripheral.

Despite the fugly graphics and tiny budgets, FPS games on the Wii are terrific fun. Even the half-assed FPS mini-game duct-taped onto the incredibly awful Banana Blitz is a good time.

I had a wonderful time with Overturn, a stripped-down dueling giant robot FPS I bought on WiiWare.

Smoth, I can't find any reviews or info on SenSen - got a link?

edit: oh, that's why I can't find anything - Japan only release.

give me a PS2 controller with a trackball instead of the right analog stick

what annoys me the most with these pointing device games is that you have to flail around (yeah yeah not all of them, and not all the time) which quite frankly is repulsive; if i want to be playing a video game, i want to be completely immobile in my chair... if i want to do other stuff, then i'll get up and actually move around

there is a dumbing down process that goes into these things. the kinect, that other POS and the wii in general are aimed more for "family fun" rather than any sort of serious gaming, and a lot of the supported console-only titles are designed so grandma can play. gimmicks (for yet another gaming generation) have crushed some possibly good games; remember super scope 6? remember that stupid robot that would play gyromite with you? all awful wastes of money and time. aside from selecting things in a menu, is there REALLY anything a pointing device is the -best- at, more so than a mouse or trackball? nay.

its the same as that "wii fit". why not just go for a jog instead? at least RL doesnt have eyeburning cartoon graphics.

if i wanted a new gaming platform, it would support mouse/keybo/ps2 sticks, have interchangeable/upgradeable parts, and none of this "wii profile" or "xbox live avatar" BS that makes me rage and want to claw my eyes out.

thankfully, i'm already the owner of a wonderful gaming platform, which manages to sidestep all of the peripher-fails and family fun. it also does porn. its a pc.

I know, I've always been craving a simple console-gamepad with a trackball. Hell, I want one for PC - give me WSAD on the left D-pad, space and shift instead of L1 and L2, the mouse buttons for R1 and R2 with a little scroll-wheel stuck in between, litter some extra buttons around the WSAD pad for extra functions, and a trackball for my right thumb. Let PC gamers reclaim the living room. I'd call it the GameBall.

Okay

From the Wii we get motion/orientation sensing and buttons and pointing (with inferred spacial tracking)

From the Move we get spacial tracking and motion/orientation sensing and buttons and pointing

From the Kinect we get spacial tracking and full body tracking (with inferred motion/orientation)

I want spacial tracking and motion/orientation sensing and buttons and pointing and full body tracking (with inferred motion/orientation)

that way, for simple interface operations I could just wave my hands but for an FPS I could hold the controller like a gun and pull triggers and physically duck behind cover (like my living room couch)... or hold the controller like a sword, the kinect style full body sensing would let me dodge or block but the actual attacks would be done by waving the sword but I could also use the controller to activate special abilities or pause the game or switch characters in a squad based game...

OR... I could get a poster sized sheet of cheap plastic with a special pattern on it that that could act as a ddr pad.

that... what?

what about people who don't have couches?

what about when you're playing online against my friend, and you're about to kill him, and i hold up a piece of cardboard with a couch drawn on it

why dont i just jam my entire living room with furniture and constantly hide behind it? i could cut a little hole in a refrigerator box and just hide inside shooting at you

will we have to buy special couches from nintendo? (or cheaper madcats ones)

what about playing in an area that doesnt have room for a couch? is that a dealbreaker? or will you get a special voucher when you buy a console "give bearer $200 off his rent from a nintendo compatible apartment" (or go the madcats route and build a small room out of cardboard boxes)

SinbadEV wrote:if Sony/Microsoft had just been able to get away with releasing their own WiiMotes then things wouldn't be ANY better off at all.

Without reading much more, i dont think the technology ist that great not accurate enough.
Wii and these eyetoy kungfu shit is more like a party gag, like karaoke its for japanese people*. (*exageration).

If it were accurate enough for an fps game because that would make consoles worth something.

knorke wrote:does anybody even want this "wave hands in front of TV" stuff?
does anybody even want steam-like systems, downloads and patches on a console?

I mostly like steam because I can buy stuff with paypal and directly play it.
And it is better for me than real copy protection, inserting dvds pisses me off.
Battlenet or steam is much more comfortable.

Pxtl wrote: FPS gaming on the Wii is hella-fun, so getting a Wiimote-style device on a real platform sounds awesome.

Is it really snappy? I played wii games where you had to pull out blocks out of a jenga tower but it wasnt very responsive.
Cant imagine to make reaction shots with a thing like that, you know these almost impossible shots where muscle memory takes over and your opponent thinks you have an aimbot.

Here comes my oppinion about the next console(Important part):
The next generation should cover the things that most pc users do, that means typing stuff and surfing the web, IM applications.

You should be able to plug in mice and keyboards and monitors aswell as tv. (tv and pc display almost became the same).
So that you have something to do a little work on and the guaranty to be able to play games for this plattform in the next 4-5 years.
All that below 500Ôé¼ or 500$
I might become a consolero then.