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A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 00:46
by Caydr
I'll pay anything, I just wan a joystick that will actually last.
I can't find a single freaking joystick anywhere that hasn't got at least 25% negative reviews or so.
I don't care if it's built from solid titanium and costs $500, if it will stand up to actual long-term aggressive use, I'd buy it.
I've had a Microsoft Precision Pro, a handful of Logitechs, a Saitek, some no-names... Invariably either the twist axis goes or else the X/Y sensors become randomly inaccurate. Or else the throttle becomes a schizophrenic 2-way toggle. On the plus side, I've never had a button stop working, which makes me one of the lucky ones apparently.
I'm half considering just buying another Logitech Freedom, it was a great joystick until the X/Y and rudder sensors died. Wireless with good battery life and no lag, to boot.
Keyboards last forever, you basically buy a new one because the new one's shinier. Same for mice. They pretty much last forever. Monitors will either last less than a year or else forever, usually... that's my experience. CPUs, GPUs, sound cards, motherboards, speakers, same. Why do joysticks have to be the one component they haven't figured out how to make bulletproof?
It's not so much a matter of expense, I get comfortable with a joystick just in time for it to break. Pisses me off.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 01:04
by Wolfword
The most confortable joystick that i┬┤ve tried was Typhoon┬┤s joystick. I dont remember the model, altought. Its has a bery big part to place the hands, turbo (Assigning turbo to individual buttons), more than 10 buttons, rumble switch, clear turbo button...
The bad: WIRED
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 01:25
by knorke
arcade shooters or flight sims?
Saitek Cyborg 3D is pretty good, honestly I think the times of uncalibrated joysticks are over when they got USB and stuff...
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 06:47
by RogerN
I've just about convinced myself that such a product does not exist. I've used many joysticks over the years (mostly playing the Descent series and Freespace 2) but have never found one which could endure more than a couple months of use before accumulated accuracy problems drove me nuts.
As I type this message I'm looking at the calibration screen for my most recent joystick, a Logitech Force 3D Pro. The crosshairs are moving all over the place even though my hand isn't even on the stick. The handle twist gauge is similarly moving back and forth despite no real input.
Most of the Descent community swears by an older Microsoft Sidewinder model which is no longer available. I never used one personally, though, so I can't comment on the quality.
Unfortunately the joystick market is minuscule, so there's not much motivation for Logitech et all to innovate in that area.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 07:38
by Hobo Joe
I dunno, mines still working pretty good after a couple decades, some people aren't quite as lucky though. We can't all have a perfect joystick.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 07:46
by luckywaldo7
Maybe its the way you handle your joystick; if you were more gentle with it you might get more use out of it.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 10:04
by zwzsg
RogerN wrote:Most of the Descent community
Where is it and which does it play?
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 10:24
by PicassoCT
My suggestion is buy two, ruin one, open the case, find the weak-spot and then terminate by using more durable material, that is tough and expensive Industrial Diamond Dogfight for the workx
http://syste.ms/joystick/
http://www.epanorama.net/documents/joys ... l#ownstick
http://www.instructables.com/id/Mini-Jo ... re-Button/
Another victory for capitalisms dirtyworkaround ways, you buy ten year long shit and then take a go for do it yourself.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 10:40
by Forboding Angel
Cyborg is indeed quite good, but it feels flimsy.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 11:05
by Otherside
i got a sidewinder precision pro had it for years still works perfectly fine.
I used toi play Tie Fighter like 4 hours a day with it and never gave problems.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 11:16
by PicassoCT
Had a Sidewinder 3D Pro- he gave way after 6 hours of mw4 in a LAN
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 23:10
by Caydr
I agree, Sidewinder Precision Pros were classy joysticks and the first one I got by far lasted the longest of any joystick I've ever had. It lasted through X-Wing, Tie-Fighter, X-Wing Alliance, Freespace, Freespace 2, and a handful of Mechwarriors before I retired it for one reason or another. I think I might have actually given it away to someone rather than it breaking.
Some research I've done tells me that "CH" joysticks are pretty much rock solid, I'm thinking about getting one. They're built by a company that makes industrial joysticks, and they model their consumer-grade ones after F-16 controls. They're not too pretty, and they're also quite expensive - $70 for the entry-level model with 4 buttons. Upwards of $100 for the higher-end ones with hat switches and stuff.
They have a solid reputation though and look like they'd survive a war.
Either that, or just buy Logitech Extreme 3D Pros and consider them as consumables.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 23:12
by Pxtl
All joysticks suck. I blame them for killing entire genres of PC gaming, and opening the gap for console gaming to take over. In the mid-'90s, all PC games were flightstick based.... and all the sticks sucked. Having controllers that just worked in FPS, RTS, and Console games was a joy.
Buy an adaptor and use a console gamepad.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 23:15
by Caydr
I have an X360 wireless gamepad that I bought with that very thought in mind. Even with custom drivers from this genius Japanese guy combined with Pinnacle Game Profiler, it's impossible to play games that were designed with a real joystick in mind. You need to be able to use keyboard controls simultaneously a lot of the time and it's just not possible.
Independence war 2 is *almost* doable. But try Freespace 2 with 9 buttons (only 6 of which you can easily press) and no precise throttle control. Or if you're a complete masochist, Tie Fighter. I grappled with that for about 3 hours before I just gave up and kept playing with my Logitech Freedom that randomly makes me dive to the left all the time.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 23:17
by Neddie
I've found four, eight, and sixteen directional digital arcade sticks to be quite useful and reliable, but of course the application for these is limited.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 23:26
by Pxtl
Caydr wrote:I have an X360 wireless gamepad that I bought with that very thought in mind. Even with custom drivers from this genius Japanese guy combined with Pinnacle Game Profiler, it's impossible to play games that were designed with a real joystick in mind. You need to be able to use keyboard controls simultaneously a lot of the time and it's just not possible.
I mean... seriously, try Freespace 2 with 8 buttons and no precise throttle control. Or if you're a complete masochist, Tie Fighter.
Maybe GameCube then? Cubes and Dreamcasts each have pressure-sensitive shoulder buttons that would work well as a throttle... but I don't think they'd work well for going in reverse. That, and I doubt you can find an adaptor that supports this functionality.
Alternately, the N64 and the Nunchuk are meant to be operated 1-handed, but that might be a nightmare to get going.
Also, Tie Fighter doesn't need a throttle controller. You match speeds with the target using the "match" command, and you start blasting until it's dead.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 09 Apr 2010, 23:34
by Caydr
360 pads have the pressure-sensitive shoulders as well, the problem is they don't stay where you leave them. I mean, on a joystick, if you put the throttle 50% up, that's where it stays until you move it again. There's no spring action. With gamepads, they spring back to 0% as soon as you let go.
This is surely no problem for racing games, but for flight sims you very often want to maintain a certain percentage of throttle for ideal maneuverability, speed, turn radius, etc.
In Tie Fighter, yes you can just hit "M", but then for example you might be moving at 90% throttle and your turn radius is much worse than the tie tie interceptor that's moving at 66% throttle or 33% throttle, leading to your rapid conversion into stellar dust.
You need to be able to quickly adjust your throttle but at the same time have it otherwise remain at a certain level most of the time.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 11 Apr 2010, 07:24
by Caydr
Anyone here tried a Saitek Cyborg X? For the most part the only knock anyone's got against them is that apparently the way the stick attaches to the base is a little wobbly and imprecise... but since I'm not often in urgent need to disassemble my joysticks, I wonder if this could just be solved with crazy glue or something.
Wouldn't be such a bother if I could find a physical store that actually sells joysticks...
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 11 Apr 2010, 08:08
by knorke
Having controllers that just worked in FPS, RTS, and Console games was a joy.
Imo they work really well
i always liked the saitek cyborg 3d...
only problem i found with it, is that the main fire trigger is imo too sensitive, it has not real real "travel" like a mouse button.
http://img.tomshardware.com/cn/newsimag ... borg3d.jpg
As gamepad I use this cheap thing: Logitech Thrusmaster
http://p.gzhls.at/54039.jpg
A friend plays with a version of that thing:
http://www.vmart.pk/main/images/wingman ... ondpad.jpg
Logitech Wingman
None of these things ever broke or got uncalibrated...
zwzsg wrote:RogerN wrote:Most of the Descent community
Where is it and which does it play?
very relevant to interessts.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Posted: 11 Apr 2010, 08:08
by knorke
knorke wrote:Having controllers that just worked in FPS, RTS, and Console games was a joy.
Imo they work really well
i always liked the saitek cyborg 3d...
only problem i found with it, is that the main fire trigger is imo too sensitive, it has not real real "travel", it is like a mouse button.
http://img.tomshardware.com/cn/newsimag ... borg3d.jpg
As gamepad I use this cheap thing: Logitech Thrusmaster
http://p.gzhls.at/54039.jpg
A friend plays with a version of that thing:
http://www.vmart.pk/main/images/wingman ... ondpad.jpg
Logitech Wingman
None of these things ever broke or got uncalibrated...
zwzsg wrote:RogerN wrote:Most of the Descent community
Where is it and which does it play?
very relevant to interessts.
