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Das Bruce wrote:

Argh wrote:Most restaurants pay their servers a very minimal hourly wage- in fact, they're allowed to pay under the regular minimum wage, by law, IIRC- so tips are a server's main source of income, at any place where you sit down and are served.

I've heard this before and it's just ridiculous, how can you pay below minimum wage? It's supposed to be the minimum.

There are actually a few states that have no minimum wage laws. In Puerto Rico the minimum wage is $4.10/hr.

However in this context, most if not all states have seperate minimum wage rates for employment positions that receive tips, ie in the restaurant industry. While regular state minimum wage may be $7-$8 an hour, minimum wage for waiters and such can be as low as $2-$3 an hour, by law.

And I agree, it is pretty ridiculous.

Surely there is racial discrimination at work when someone puplishes a cartoon against a ridiculous religious idea, and the fanatic comunity decides that the laws of there new homecountry are nil and nothing, and starts to set fire and civil war into the streets.

I wonder what would happen, if all of the sudden, the muslims in america would start burning american flags in the streets and demand that all of you turn your back on alcohol, sex and rock n roll forever? Because that is what they try over here, by feeling offended from everything around them.

Hope you find it out the hard way, that some immigrants dont want to immigrate, they want your money, they want your protection against the murderous dictators they escaped from, but basically they never wanted to leave there homecountry for any other reason. Now they are here, and demand that you join there new homecountry or leave. So what? Make a WASP-Reservation, right next to the Navajo one?

Immigrants to the USA and europe are different it's well known.
While those immigrating to USA are already pretty established themselves a lot of the "muslim" immigrants to europe are "refugees" or lower class badly educated people.
I'm not referring to illegal immigration of course.
Also isn't the US set up in a way that kinda forces people to take active part in the job cycle and makes people be active while as oppose to some countries in europe where social support is higher and allows people to kinda sit in their place while still being able to support themselves(but people with actual needs that cannot take active part in the job cycles have it easier)?

Isn't the US much more about the "rat race" than many European countries?
I think this works much better with big waves of immigration.

Argh wrote: As another example, in restaurants, we leave money as a "tip", and that's an important part of giving feedback to the people who took our orders and served our food, even if we'll never see them again.

Come on, women with bigger tits get more tips Im sure you can prove that statistically.
It has nothing to do how good the service is as long as they dont spit in my food service is fine.

SpikedHelmet wrote:However in this context, most if not all states have seperate minimum wage rates for employment positions that receive tips, ie in the restaurant industry. While regular state minimum wage may be $7-$8 an hour, minimum wage for waiters and such can be as low as $2-$3 an hour, by law.

Food servers in Canada also make below minimum wage.

PicassoCT wrote:I wonder what would happen, if all of the sudden, the muslims in america would start burning american flags in the streets and demand that all of you turn your back on alcohol, sex and rock n roll forever? Because that is what they try over here, by feeling offended from everything around them.

Hope you find it out the hard way, that some immigrants dont want to immigrate, they want your money, they want your protection against the murderous dictators they escaped from, but basically they never wanted to leave there homecountry for any other reason. Now they are here, and demand that you join there new homecountry or leave. So what? Make a WASP-Reservation, right next to the Navajo one?

A European lecturing America that its acceptance and tolerance for muslims will destroy it? Waitwut? A European saying America is too politically correct?

It is obvious immigrants will suffer discrimination,in fact discriminating against those who are different is natural and cant even be full avoided even if your a modern cosmopolitan person.
Most important thing is that the government will not make discriminating rules and try to make discrimination of a certain group a formal thing.

Discrimination is always there even in the US after such a long battle against it and women are also discriminated against everywhere.
However,problems of inegration of immigrants do not solely lie on the native population but partially also on the immigrants.
Every case of immigration and integration of a new populace now and in past needs to be studied and compared to see if there are similar lines or are there new phenomenons.

there is also the issue of immigration policy and what sort of citizens you are letting into your country.
If some african cannibal who lived his whole life as a savage is brought to a civilized country will he have a hard time adjusting?hell yeah.
There are no inherently less civilized individuals but there are people who are not used to living in a civilized society and will obviously find it hard to live in one after living their whole lives under different circumstances.

I saw a program about south Africa and the narrator was visiting some very poor village..
There are constant lynches in the village and people getting burned alive by the community because there is no law enforcement there.

What do you think will the residence there behave like in a much more civilized society?It will take them very long if at all to get used to living with strict laws and abiding to them.

Organized religions should be made illegal.

GOTA is so right, just take a look at those poor palestinians, if they werent so badly discriminated in israel and by the remains of the world they would fit in perfectly.

This culture/religion has 1.5 billion humans - and where are the fruits, where are the inventions, the books, the ideas, the art, everything that makes a human more than a living organism that could basically spend his days under a bolder? Where is the springmod whos team resides in the middle east (israel doesent count)? I feel robbed, i feel cheated upon by those rotten religions, and this one especially who even handcuffs its believers in western countrys. But well, you dont trust my words, you take it frome somebody neutral.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Human ... ent_Report
The problems describeded in that report, is what this countrys export into Europe - America doesent count, as they have a very selective barrier - taking only the upper crust, basically the students of the richer familys, so for once you americans locked yourself out of a opionion on troubles, and congrats on that.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/opini ... .html?_r=1

this is some of the most fucking racist bollocks i've seen in a while. it's barely worth going into detail, but the idea that somehow all muslims everywhere are literally trying to take over our countries and murder us or something is some sort of deluded fantasy of the apocalyptist and "what have the muslims ever done!!" is pig ignorant.

pretty disappointed

Disregard post, outlined in chalk, lay grammar of talk.

wat

pay your rant... nah was tired, and didnt re-read my post. Will delete.

So... Denmark's a country now?

Caydr wrote:So... Denmark's a country now?

yeah, they speak dutch there

sort of a norther province of Ôé¼urope

Lets make a Monthy Python: Life of Brian, but instead with a Life of Mohmed -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDCAJTrF1gg

One of the best German summary-article upon topic:
http://www.online-merkur.de/seiten/lp201004ab.htm

As always once you bring good arguments- suddenly silence

CarRepairer wrote:

SpikedHelmet wrote:However in this context, most if not all states have seperate minimum wage rates for employment positions that receive tips, ie in the restaurant industry. While regular state minimum wage may be $7-$8 an hour, minimum wage for waiters and such can be as low as $2-$3 an hour, by law.

Food servers in Canada also make below minimum wage.

Not in my part of Canada ^_^ (the good non-conservative part)


Anyway, this entire immigration problem in Europe is actually pretty hilarious, because, like in the US, it's your own fucking fault.

Not you, personally, but the fault of your own country, not theirs. It's your fault because for hundreds of years since the age of Columbus and particularly into the industrial age the major European powers spent a hell of a lot of effort invading, conquering and taking control of the places where these immigrants are coming from -- in Britain its mainly India and the Middle East; with France it's North Africa; with the low countries it was the rest of Africa. In each and every case, the target nation/society/people/geographical area became a piece of owned land because of its people or resources (or people as resources) and your ever-posh government officials over time began to establish certain diplomatic legalities to make the transfer of goods and money to-and-fro more amicable for business interests, the most obvious example being Algeria's practical legal assimilation into France as one of its provinces and giving Algerian citizens dual French citizenship.

In other words, to make the flow of capital more fluidic your governments opened your borders and created a web of assimilation, essentially building a yellow-brick road straight from Africa and the Middle East to your countries.

Same with the US. They spent the better part of the 20th century playing overlord of central and south America, bleeding its resources for cheap labour and goods and removing any governments that wouldn't co-operate, and now they're all upset that those millions of poor impoverished fuckers who're suffering in the society the US created want to come and get their due in the States.

You can't have it both ways. If you want to take the money out of the Middle East and Africa and south America then you've gotta take the people that get fucked up by it too.

Again, not you personally, but you get the idea. If you want to keep milking the cow, you've gotta take the responsibility of feeding it.

I think that problem with low "integration" is on both sides (both host country and new culture). USA assimilates much easier, its more welcoming and instills same culture to all. In many EU countries there isn't very strong local culture (5-15m nation - hell its like a spit in China) or its simply too xenophobic (you aren't XX if you weren't born XX).
If the country hates you, you stick to your community.
In USA you won't have party wanting to export all current and first generation immigrants out, like BNP in UK.
I know Czechs, and most other eastern europeans are very xenophobic, I don't envy anyone living here :)


My personal interaction with local muslims has been good so far, former Iraqis in local mosque are very friendly, and even learned Czech quickly.
Just my Jordanian muslim college roommates were a bit annoying, mostly because they were heavy drinkers (they said Allah can't see them under that concrete roof or something). I bet next generation could easilly mistake Allah for some brand of cleaning agent. One of my colleges was born in Iraq and moved here as kid but now he is more "true" Czech then I am - fully embracing local majority culture (which I consider to be BS).


Visible large community of Vietnamese living here for several decades wasn't exactly popular. Almost nobody out of original migrants can understand/speak properly. But they are great enterpreneurs/traders quickly filling niches in market, and their second generation is fully integrated - because they attend to local schools.

So I woudlnt care much about it - even if once upon a time some idiot tries to blow something up, damage is small compared to impacts of mundane stuff like driving or generally preventable stuff like drunkeness.

Ah Canada, is there anything you can't do right?

tombom wrote:

Caydr wrote:So... Denmark's a country now?

yeah, they speak dutch there

no, they speak islam there