Spring RTS Engine

mongus wrote:-The winner team reclaimed more wreck: i lost too many units at enemy territory (big mistake).
-The game was slower than a land battle: there wasnt specially complex battles or much teching, yet the game took 22 minutes.

I used the metal to tech+make cruiser

well current sea is quite enjoyable imo

1-it isnt a crasy SPAM
2-nor a blunt hard spam 1 ship game

i think that its the best sea on whole spring to be honest

1-it has the fast raids of scouts ships (ca doesnt even have that)
2-vanguards as assault
3-defs are good you cant kill a torp laucher that easy (repairing with com )
4-tidal farms are raped by air for a sub starter


i think that xta has a more CA style sea than CA
its more fast passed than you think

im talking about my own experience, i like the diferent roles as scouts are used almost all sea game as AA long range raiding, and vanguards killing defs........assault e.t.c and cruiser as a bombardement unit

this is for t1 sea and hover lab they seam to work very good.
But t2 sea seams a bit like of the mod imo

the t2 subs are balanced but t2 AA ship missile ship and more heavyer cruisers are offbalanced as to their roles.
just an opinion
as regarding sea only played very few games "this year"
that envolved large t2 sea battles, MOSTLY T1.

wont rebate you scifi, i just disagree.
there is so much lol in current sea i would get lapidated just by mentioning it.
Also cba atm.



Have you played the old sea balance? for how long?

I have the feeling this issue can be appreciated better by a guy who has played lots of OTA sea, and lots of old xta sea.

old sea sucked just as bad

mongus wrote:I have the feeling this issue can be appreciated better by a guy who has played lots of OTA sea, and lots of old xta sea.

so played lots of imba sea with more imba sea

scifi wrote:well current sea is quite enjoyable imo

i think that its the best sea on whole spring to be honest

Best sea in the whole spring is in NOTA. No other mod comes close to the micro and macro you have to do with your ships there :)

I wish XTA had a similar approach to something which should be spectacular ( I mean, really, ships, size of a tank? its a motor boat, not a destroyer)

sure nota ships are awesome, i like them too. but nota is large battle-scale, so u would unbalance the whole game with nota sea balance for xta

==Troy== wrote:

scifi wrote:well current sea is quite enjoyable imo

i think that its the best sea on whole spring to be honest

Best sea in the whole spring is in NOTA. No other mod comes close to the micro and macro you have to do with your ships there :)

I wish XTA had a similar approach to something which should be spectacular ( I mean, really, ships, size of a tank? its a motor boat, not a destroyer)

Last time I played NOTA sea, which admittely was a long time ago, there were only a few ships out at a time, whereas in xta sea there were lots, and all different ones which to me, is better. Not that I'm an advocat of spam, but it just didn't seem the same with 3 massive ships duking it out...

we all like the look of the huge ships, but I don't think they fit in, the xta ships aren't that small and seeing as there are more of them about it seems sense to make them smaller. Think of it this way, tanks the size of ships not the other way round, if you want to go down the route of "game must be realistic!" which usually isn't a good one, surely the factions would devolop air/land more making them bigger as that's mostly what they use, how many times do you use sea as oppose to land? And really, scale wise peewees are as big as trees or even larger. Also, compare a stumpy in size to an Enforcer, which is bigger? I'd rather it to be this than NOTA style with really small infantry and tanks...

I really push for E&E sea.

neddiedrow wrote:I really push for E&E sea.

I hope your pushing against a wall.

Gota wrote:

neddiedrow wrote:I really push for E&E sea.

I hope your pushing against a wall.

E&E sea was a lot like NOTA sea but with many more ships in the water. However, NOTA sea is horribly weak against land, while E&E sea is horribly strong against land. Not to mention that the models and textures in E&E are far superior, no offense to the NOTA developers.

babbles wrote:so played lots of imba sea with more imba sea

Have you? or just speaking out your armpits?
I couldnt point out one player that has this knowledge and is active right now, but that is the adequate person who could talk about the balance in old and new xta sea.


Instead of that, seems most of you have had few experience with naval battles in old xta (or in ota). And seems the people that helped develop new sea (myg clan? knox? and rox?), didnt have the knowledge either.

Otoh, im confident those who developed the old xta, had real knowledge of sea battles, you can see that in the old xta balance, and didnt want to turn sea gameplay into (more) "rocko like" battles, but in sea.

For a newcomer, new sea will look ok. And its playable with some issues ofc.


We will hardly get someone to appreciate this issues, as no one will ever play old sea any more, noruas wont rollback changes, and this mod is barely played nowadays.

note: also admins and other spammers, please try to stay ontopic.

no one will ever play it because it was awful

when you and me played it, beyond the bugs it was still awful, scout boat spam followed by a destroyer he who kills the other guy's ship first and reclaims wins

T2 was awful and had no real impact in sea to sea, subs were a pile of rubbish and all sea battles went the same.

I don't know why I even bother arguing with you though as you'll just say I wasn't there in the glory days I didn't play this or that blah blah

Bah noobs don't know what they are talking about...
having to use every freaking unit in your arsenal every minute is not fun.
Selecting different units and concentrating on the mixing itself is not fun.
What is fun is controlling 1-2 sometimes 3 unit types at a given moment,but that's it.
Beyond that,mixes of units become boring in spring.
This is not warcraft 3 where u can easily control 5 different spell casters ,each with his own spells,with ease.

OTA was fun cause it was about getting los so your units can outfire the enemy and the gameplay was progressive which means 1-2 units were replaced by another 1-2 units.
The player did not have to mix every different unit he can build all the time,he had to masterfully control the 1-2 unit types he had.

You noobs don't know it,haven't experienced it,and are playing an inferior product without even acknowledging it.
It expresses itself subconsciously by you not wanting to play XTA,as it is now,cause it sux.

Urgh. Would you like me to split this or merely close it?

I am the only person, other than Noruas, and I suppose Mongus, who I would say has a good knowledge of how old/current sea both play.

I greatly prefer new sea, for many reasons.

NOTA sea is completely overrated, and is far far less dynamic than XTA sea.

NOTA sea = mstall to build one ship

EE sea ftw

Gota wrote:Bah noobs don't know what they are talking about...
having to use every freaking unit in your arsenal every minute is not fun.
Selecting different units and concentrating on the mixing itself is not fun.
What is fun is controlling 1-2 sometimes 3 unit types at a given moment,but that's it.
Beyond that,mixes of units become boring in spring.
This is not warcraft 3 where u can easily control 5 different spell casters ,each with his own spells,with ease.

OTA was fun cause it was about getting los so your units can outfire the enemy and the gameplay was progressive which means 1-2 units were replaced by another 1-2 units.
The player did not have to mix every different unit he can build all the time,he had to masterfully control the 1-2 unit types he had.

You noobs don't know it,haven't experienced it,and are playing an inferior product without even acknowledging it.
It expresses itself subconsciously by you not wanting to play XTA,as it is now,cause it sux.

Gota you sux, and all your babbling says nothing ontopic. (old xta sea.).

neddiedrow wrote:Urgh. Would you like me to split this or merely close it?

I think you still have not spammed it enough, maybe 8 more dabbling posts about some other mod sea or how to play ota, or more random moderator chat, and maybe it will be worth "cleanage". If you want to do something useful, go unlock the tower defense thread in games and mods forum that got bashed with no reason thanks.

babbles wrote:when you and me played it, beyond the bugs it was still awful, scout boat spam followed by a destroyer he who kills the other guy's ship first and reclaims wins

Well, i did that kind of strategy.... bc i was SO FUCKING PISSED off of ppl saying its was 1st destroyer=win.

I abused your destroyers, and you had to retreat/repair them in your base, escaping of OMG! skeeters. So i think i DID a good job,now you think it was about scout spam (one of several possible strategies), not destroyer>all. So that is progress. (the replays are in replays.adune.nl

About reclaiming, YES, it was crucial in old xta sea VERY crucial, i cant stress this issue more. I lost the games i lost vs you bc i did let too much metal on your base, my gameplay was quite good, but did that (not small) mistake = DONT LEAVE MUCH SHIP METAL WRECKS IN ENEMY BASE.

This, the metal thing, is not so true for latest xta version, as somehow, skeeters are not leaving as many wrecks as before. Something related to wreck health and rockets/weapons destruction power. Not checked on that.

babbles wrote:T2 was awful and had no real impact in sea to sea, subs were a pile of rubbish and all sea battles went the same.

hm. Well t2 wasn't THAT different from current xta.

Using t2 units gave you a very good swiss knife to finish almost any land base. totally erase it and pass over it. Aswell it gave AMAZING sea battles. Great ships, and well balanced, i dont know what you are talking about.

OMG OLD MILLENIUM ACCURACY WAS ASSURED BASE RAPE.


Subs used to be balanced, and worked fine as they were (were balanced)
That is prior to some changes noize did iirc.
He gave the subs more range but no guided torpedo(or something like that). Which utterly broke subs balance.

Subs relied in this LOS to work propperly, they didnt have a huge LOS, but had enough to fire their torpedoes safely.

And you would have realized that if we have had more games, and not just 4?, in which you at least got some taste of the game play i think.

babbles wrote:I don't know why I even bother arguing with you though as you'll just say I wasn't there in the glory days I didn't play this or that blah blah

at least you wont get a " why dont you compare crusaders with brawlers", type of response.

pintle wrote:I am the only person, other than Noruas, and I suppose Mongus, who I would say has a good knowledge of how old/current sea both play.

I greatly prefer new sea, for many reasons.

NOTA sea is completely overrated, and is far far less dynamic than XTA sea.

Well. ive played new sea. but im not confident in it.

As you may like it (... personally, like the water radars and UWMOHOS, ... not much else). I have LOTS of issues with it, which were solved/worked better in the old balance.

It would be cool if you could talk about the changes, and point things you like/dislike. what about things like skeeter vs air damage?.

I have raised my hand hundreds of times already about the issues i dislike.
and not going to point that things out again rite now.

Believe me mong, I'd play you another 10 times with xta 8.1 sea and I bet I still wouldn't prefer it. shame about the subs though, we can't really argue over them if as the furtherst back I have experience of is after you say they were broken, but they are pretty useless in 8.1.

Also, reason I say T2 was awful is because there wasn't a proper surface to surface ship, such as the daybreak.

Oh and skeeter vs air damage, I thought we proved this? When you tried to kill my skeeters with gunships and failed horrificly

I definitely liked E&E sea, not sure how you would apply it in xta. Def need smaller boats for more boats.

Sea is really brutal at tech 1, a 2 (1 sub 1 boat) vs 2 (2 boats or 2 subs), the mixture will rape the blandness of the other side. Right now it might be actually too complicated.

I still rather tempted to split subs completely void of shipyards and add a subpen at tech 2 level.

GOTA makes a really good point with mastering 1-2 units but as of now you almost need all of the ships in t1 together to max potential each strength of individual type of unit which can be very stressful.

Lets keep away from personal attacks against ourselves though, I already hate politics.