WHAT THE FUCK ARGH!

[Argh]

If I'd listed the "P.U.R.E. Engine", I'd get in just as much hot water, even though that's entirely legal, for "not giving credit to the SYs"

Faced with bad choices, I took what looked like the least-bad one, pure and simple. An engine cannot be listed, without a Publisher. A game cannot be listed, without an engine.

You've gotta see how ModDB's stupid system works, it's completely built around the idea that only mods will ever use it, even though it's becoming an indie-game location.

I suppose I could have made a seperate SY publisher, but then everybody would be jumping down my throat for "controlling what the SYs can say about their own engine", or other bullshit, because whoever founds the group is then the controller. See how this goes? I was annoyed and totally frustrated with this, tbh- I just wanted the game listed, that's all, and had to fill out a bazillion forms, list a company address, etc., etc.

Meh... when you hear back from the ModDB people about this, Nemo, if they can make that change for the current Spring "game" entry, great, I'll just edit my listing to match up, and then ask them to axe the then-orphaned "clone" that will exist, because it'll be redundant.

Until then, since it's massively offensive to everybody, I'll edit the Spring Engine listing to a generic placeholder name, to make this un-confusing, in case anybody might actually be confused, and hope that eventually this gets straightened out, so that I am giving proper credit to the ENGINE creators, while retaining the proper title of GAME, with all that implies... mmmkkkk?

I don't want to come back to this topic, reading some bullshit about how now I'm not crediting the SYs, though, this is just temporary until Nemo has gotten them to change the listing. We all ok with that? P.U.R.E. is a game, I am a publisher, I own the IP, and I am not listing it as a mod. Period.

[Argh]

There, it's done. All references to Spring are removed... go see for yourselves, and it'll remain like that until Nemo's heard back from ModDB and Spring is listed properly...

[Nemo]

I actually figured I'd just ask the guy to move s44 (and others, I guess) over to games on the engine entry you made, and then you could edit it to change the "Wolfe Games" ownership business. it shouldn't be too bad (pretty much everything listed as a "mod" on spring is actually a game, except AA which is dead anyways), so I guess I'll ask for them all to be made into "games" on the engine entry you made, if nobody has a problem with that (I don't know what that'll entail as far as mod watchers, screens, ect, but I doubt you'll lose those).

[Argh]

Ok... then, if nobody's going to throw any more hissy-fits... I will go copy all of the information from the Spring "game" listing, which is better than my text anyhow... we all ok with this? I do not want to pretend I made, own, or control Spring. Period.

[Argh]

Actually... meh, I am going to copy it, word-for-word, for now... but I'd like to remove the TA references, that's bad... is that OK with everybody?

[smoth]

as long as the ownership is NOT wolfe games you know I am behind you nemo. if you need me to pm a moddb admin to that point and purpose I shall.

[Argh]

Meh, then the SYs need to make a listing, as a Publisher.

An Engine must be listed with a Publisher. Publisher-->Engine-->Game-->Mod. When I hear it's been done by the SYs, I will happily assign the Engine to them.

[smoth]

Argh, memories are short but I hold people to what they do. If the situation was reversed and fang had done this you would have steam rolled him all the same as you had in the past. When I saw that you had done this I was upset. I can understand what you wanted to do but if you felt pure was an independent you could have listed it as such.

there are tons of independent titles listed and you could have just done that. I see no reason that you had to do what you had done with spring.

[Argh]

Meh, as I said, either way I was going to get fried. If I acted like P.U.R.E. wasn't built on Spring's work, I'd have rightly been toasted, imo. I thought it was better to credit them, instead of even slightly acting like I'd done all the work myself. You must list a Publisher and an Engine to list a Game, on ModDB... their entire system is retarded, about stuff like Spring games, tbh.

I put all of this up less than two weeks ago, IIRC, and was intending to get with the SYs about the whole thing, before release, but it's been low on my priorities, I've been dicking with promo stuff in the background, but mainly I'm trying to get the game cleaned up enough for betatesting and release.

So, it's entirely my fault that I didn't get it done before somebody saw it and blew up. At any rate, I can understand the feeling, it's OK, and it'll get fixed to everybody's satisfaction.

[smoth]

that is what confuses me, I thought there was an option to register an independant game. I have seen many in my time on moddb. Was there something keeping you from registering pure as just pure?

[Argh]

Meh, I did not see any option like what you're describing, when setting the game up. They wanted Publisher-->Engine-->Game, which annoyed the hell out've me, because they wanted to get really nosy, when I registered as a Publisher. They didn't ask for Wolfe Games's Tax ID numbers, or incorporation date, or anything really lame like that, but meh, it was still more invasive than I thought was right- why should I have to give them addresses and stuff?

Could be I just missed it, I was in a hurry, and it was very frustrating. I just wanted to go straight to listing as, "game", and post some news, and ended up spending nearly 3 hours, making separate banners, writing stupid copy, etc., just to satisfy their system...

[EDIT]

I looked over their system again, and no... you can't do what you're describing, Smoth, without describing your engine as, "custom built" That would have been a bad choice... I'd forgotten that that was the "other option" that I decided was not for me, as it obscures the role of Spring in making P.U.R.E. possible. I have no interest or desire to hide Spring from people who like P.U.R.E., quite the opposite...

[SwiftSpear]

I can make a listing for the SY's as the publisher I suppose... I'm not really the leader of the SY's but I'm more neutral than Argh. Although it's kindof stupid that the owner of an engine must register on the site to be credited. I'm sure allot of commercial engines can't be assed to care about the antics of moddb.

[edit] Will that work?

[Argh]

Yeah, that should work, although you may need to make Spring Engine attached to your Group, then copy-->paste the text, once your Group is live. Then we can all just attach our Games to that Engine, and I can zap the Engine listing I have... should work...

[SwiftSpear]

Ya, I figured I'd have to wait for the group to go live.

[Argh]

K. Going to bed now, I will clean up the remaining mess, and move P.U.R.E. over to that Engine listing, when I wake up.

[Vadi]

Here's a good video that demonistrates a bunch of mods & maps:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/user ... 09324.html

Just try and let the use know somehow before watching the video that this is a compilation of several, uh games, which are referenced as mods for historical reasons.

[KDR_11k]

Hm, is marking Spring as made by the SYs really appropriate anymore? It's a GPL project and has loads of contributors that have nothing to do with the SYs. Are there even any SYs left on the project? I thought they all left. So wouldn't registering Spring as "Publisher: GPL" or something like that be more fitting?

[Forboding Angel]

See smoth? All that high and mighty outrage over nothing. You wanted it to be some huge conspiracy. I'm glad that it was proved that I was right that there was no big conspiracy to steal spring.


besides... It's moddb. Their system sucks, it's horrible to browse, and I've spent more than 10 minutes on moddb maybe twice in my life.

[rattle]

I find moddb quite useful, saved me the trouble of haunting gazillions of modding forums or fansites, some you'd never have found in the first place as they're hidden and what not.

[Vadi]

How about "Spring team"? Nice and ambiguous, while still meaningful.

Edit: And yeah, I don't really bother with moddb myself either, but getting Springs position straight in there is a starting step for the rest.