The moral matrix

[Johannes]

Alot of atheists believe meat is murder... just saying... this baby stew is awesome

[momfreeek]

Its not being alone or how you think that causes schizophrenia but schizophrenia that leads to loneliness (hard to function in society when you see and hear things that are not really there).

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Schizophre ... auses.aspx
causes: genetic/trauma/head injuries/drug abuse
symptoms: hallucinations/delusions/confusion/withdrawal

I have learned that when we see men of a contrary character, we should turn inwards and examine ourselves.

One can turn too much inward, it can lead to mental decomposition

logically speaking this is no contradiction at all

> when hungry one should eat
> one can eat too much

[Panda]

Its not being alone or how you think that causes schizophrenia but schizophrenia that leads to loneliness (hard to function in society when you see and hear things that are not really there).

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Schizophre ... auses.aspx
causes: genetic/trauma/head injuries/drug abuse
symptoms: hallucinations/delusions/confusion/withdrawal

http://www.learningplaceonline.com/stag ... rikson.htm

"we know that orphans who weren't held or stroked as infants have an extremely hard time connecting with others when they become adults and have even died from lack of human contact."

[smoth]

logically speaking this is no contradiction at all

> when hungry one should eat
> one can eat too much

yeah that is what I was saying, just cautioning people not to swing like a pendulum.

[momfreeek]

"we know that orphans who weren't held or stroked as infants have an extremely hard time connecting with others when they become adults and have even died from lack of human contact."

chiuld development? a baby deprived of human contact its hardly the same as a bit of self reflection when fully grown. and its certainly not the same thing as schitzophrenia which is a specific disease.

from what i read that article is about self reflection..

As you read through the following eight stages with their sets of opposites, notice which strengths you identify with most and those you need to work on some more.

logically speaking this is no contradiction at all

> when hungry one should eat
> one can eat too much

yeah that is what I was saying, just cautioning people not to swing like a pendulum.

yeah funny thats not covered in the article. I'm not sure self-reflection is so dangerous you need to caution people on it

[luckywaldo7]

Alot of atheists believe meat is murder... just saying... this baby stew is awesome

True. If you don't believe this, ask the Alot itself.

[Panda]

"we know that orphans who weren't held or stroked as infants have an extremely hard time connecting with others when they become adults and have even died from lack of human contact."

chiuld development? a baby deprived of human contact its hardly the same as a bit of self reflection when fully grown. and its certainly not the same thing as schitzophrenia which is a specific disease

Smoth was saying that too much self-reflection (not a bit) can lead to schitzophrenia. He was referring to when someone becomes too introverted from excessive self-reflection leading to psychotic episodes (as is seen in schitzophrenia), not a little bit of self-reflection leading to schitzophrenia.

That's true that a baby deprived of human is not the same thing as a fully grown person becoming schitzophrenic from too much self-reflection. However, this study proves that excessive lack of human contact (communicating with other people is a form of human contact), is not healthy for people. Plus, plenty of other studies (prison studies, methods of interrogation studies) have shown that excessive isolation is a form of psychological torture. Therefore, the line of reasoning that excessive self-reflection can be a factor that influences the development of schitzophrenia is: Excessive self-reflection ------> too much introversion -----> lack of human contact because of preoccupation with the self --------> the possibility of mental degradation in the form of schitzophrenia.

There is not easy solution to exactly what the cause of schitzophrenia is since is usually the result of myriad of factors including biological, social, environmental, and psychological factors, but there is a lot of evidence to support the theory that excessive lack of human contact leads to mental degradation.

[smoth]

Alot of atheists believe meat is murder... just saying... this baby stew is awesome

True. If you don't believe this, ask the Alot itself.

I want one! It looks cute!

[Panda]

Aww.

[momfreeek]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/qui ... -introvert

Introversion does not equal psychosis or a propensity to violence.

This really shouldnÔÇÖt need to be said, of course. Except that it does.

Recently,The Daily Mail reported a tragically familiar story. A 23 year old named Joseph McAndrew stabbed his parents and twin brother to death in the ------- of their family home. Here were the very first words of the article: A 'loner and introvert' allegedly stabbed to death his twin brother, mother and father

IÔÇÖm sure this formulation is as familiar to you as the story itself. The media often brings us tales of ÔÇ£shy,ÔÇØÔÇØquiet,ÔÇØÔÇØintrovertedÔÇØ killers.

IÔÇÖm not disputing that Joseph McAndrew was a quiet guy who kept to himself. The article reports that he spent most of his time alone in his room.

But McAndrew was not just introverted. He was deranged. HeÔÇÖd been struggling with mental illness, possibly schizophrenia, for many years. And herein lies the problem. People who suffer from psychoses often withdraw from the world. Technically, they are ÔÇ£introvertedÔÇØ in the sense of having turned inward.

But they are not introverts in the sense that most people use that word, to connote a person who has a rich inner life and prefers low-stimulation environments (the company of a close friend to a big group, a quiet game of tennis compared to bungee jumping.)

In fact, studies show that introverted young people are less prone to violence and delinquency than extroverts are. They also smoke less and use fewer drugs.

Here's another way to look at the problem. People who suffer from mania tend to be sociable, talkative, and energetic. So do narcissists. It is also true that a narcissist is more likely to be an extrovert than an introvert. But that doesnÔÇÖt mean that extroversion = mania or narcissism.

Please, can we finally put this cultural myth to rest?

"Please, can we finally put this cultural myth to rest?"

Smoth was saying that too much self-reflection (not a bit) can lead to schitzophrenia. He was referring to when someone becomes too introverted from excessive self-reflection leading to psychotic episodes (as is seen in schitzophrenia), not a little bit of self-reflection leading to schitzophrenia.

Perhaps true in rare cases but generally this is a myth. go read up on schitzophrenia. Withdrawal is a symptom of the early stages of the disease, not the cause. So,yes you will see someone becoming increasingly introverted and then they will develop psychotic episodes.

In contrast, trauma and physical abuse cause by other people are common causes of schitzophrenia which would actually suggest isolation is safer. Clearly its not something you need to explicitly warn people about whenever they consider social interaction.


Of course extended/forced isolation has its dangers, but who was suggesting that? A little self-reflection is clearly good for you. You might just as well caution someone considering exercise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_exercise

Too much exercise can be harmful. Without proper rest, the chance of stroke or other circulation problems increases,