The moral matrix

[Gota]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs41JrnGaxc

Some here need to watch this ASAP.

[PicassoCT]

A moral matrix? You mean a grayscalepicture mixed out of thousands of good and bads?


great idea

[Licho]

The presentation describes the difference in moral reasoning. But it fails in its second part..

Somehow he shows pictures of past societies who developed from tribal to city/state level and claims (without any reason) that this demands all 5 types of moral thinking.

Likewise, he somehow assumes that demise of past civilizations has something to do with not enough of 3 types of moral reasoning .. again unfounded.
Many societies collapsed because of war, changes of environment and similar issues. I dont know of any that collapsed due to internal factors only.

And in many societies, internal rigidity of conservatism led to the decline - see TED talk from Jared Diamond about collapse of Icelandic society.

[Gota]

The presentation describes the difference in moral reasoning. But it fails in its second part..

Somehow he shows pictures of past societies who developed from tribal to city/state level and claims (without any reason) that this demands all 5 types of moral thinking.

Likewise, he somehow assumes that demise of past civilizations has something to do with not enough of 3 types of moral reasoning .. again unfounded.
Many societies collapsed because of war, changes of environment and similar issues. I dont know of any that collapsed due to internal factors only.

And in many societies, internal rigidity of conservatism led to the decline - see TED talk from Jared Diamond about collapse of Icelandic society.

I agree but it would be hard to imagine a society completely collapsing cause of internal issues...
What usually happens is that there is a lot of internal issues at some point which contribute to its ultimate decline after it gets conquered or destroyed in its weakened state...

[Wombat]

politics ! inb4 ban.

was actually interesting tho.

[PicassoCT]

I think moral is impossible without religion, although religion heavily depends on the location, for exampel if you compare the US with europe and the middle east, you will learn, there sometimes are not enough matches for the stack to burn.

BRB with moar matches..

[luckywaldo7]

Damnit, I was hoping that 'moral matrix' was refering to a mathematical approach to morality, instead it refers to the movie. >:(

[PicassoCT]

Damnit, I was hoping that 'moral matrix' was refering to a mathematical approach to morality, instead it refers to the movie. >:(

It surely would be nice to see this moral-thing once and for all clearly defined, so we could calculate with it, get discounts, find the root of all evil or square hipocrisy.

Instead, we will have this dragons-throat-threads forever.

[smoth]

Wow, what a douche.

Ok so he has a good point, we need both sides. It is hardly something new or enlightening.

conservatives keep the place running liberals push the envelope by breaking the rules.

It was cool in that he knew where he was, there would be a high liberal viewpoint so he setup the speech with a good head-fake where he tricks the liberals into feeling smug then points out that their smugness is in fact just as close-minded as many conservatives. I think that was the best part of the lecture.

[Licho]

What? what does religion has in common with morality? Those are completely unrelated concepts and you dont need one for the other.

[smoth]

tons of atheists believe meat is murder... just saying... this beef stew is awesome

[Gota]

Who mentioned relig*on??

[smoth]

picasso

[FLOZi]

What? what does religion has in common with morality? Those are completely unrelated concepts and you dont need one for the other.

Absolutely! Such a straw man to claim that religion has a monopoly on morality.

tons of atheists believe meat is murder... just saying... this beef stew is awesome

What? Vegetarianism is hardly the exclusive property of Atheists. Nor is Atheism the domain solely of vegetarians, I am quite certainly one and not the other, as are most people I know.

[smoth]

What? what does religion has in common with morality? Those are completely unrelated concepts and you dont need one for the other.

tons of atheists believe meat is murder... just saying... this beef stew is awesome

post saying religion doesn't necessarily relate to morality. Reply saying that there are perfectly non-religious people who have goofy morality issues. third reply lashing me for saying that athiests have goofy morals to for picking on atheist.. wtf flozi.

[FLOZi]

What? what does religion has in common with morality? Those are completely unrelated concepts and you dont need one for the other.

tons of atheists believe meat is murder... just saying... this beef stew is awesome

post saying religion doesn't necessarily relate to morality. Reply saying that there are perfectly non-religious people who have goofy morality issues. third reply lashing me for saying that athiests have goofy morals to for picking on atheist.. wtf flozi.

Umm what? I was hardly 'lashing' you. And frankly I can't even parse that last sentence into comprehensible English.

The point is that religion and morality are not dependant on one another, that hardly rules out that Atheists have strong moral opinions that may be out of the mainstream. Surely you have studied propositional logic!?

[smoth]

the point is that religion and morality are not dependant on one another, that hardly rules out that Atheists have strong moral opinions that may be out of the mainstream. Surely you have studied propositional logic!?

/:| So what was the issue with my point exactly? I don't see the issue.

edits for clarity:

tons of atheists believe meat is murder... just saying... this beef stew is awesome

What? Vegetarianism is hardly the exclusive property of Atheists. Nor is Atheism the domain solely of vegetarians, I am quite certainly one and not the other, as are most people I know.

I said tons. not all.

Surely you are familiar with SETS.

[FLOZi]

Yes, but your point is still totally unrelated. Why even point out that some Atheists are vegetarians? I doubt the correlation between vegetarianism and atheism is even that strong to start with, but you seem to be using it to contravene a point about morality being independent of religion by choosing a particularly extreme moral viewpoint and linking it to Atheism...

It just reads that licho said:

"You don't have to be religious to be moral"

and you answered

"but Atheists can also have extreme moral viewpoints", which is totally not the point. It's like answering "What's your name?" with your date of birth.

[luckywaldo7]

Er, am I missing some context for this discussion? I don't see any posts or remember hearing anything in the video that claimed morality is exclusive to religion.

[smoth]

you put vegetarianism in the extreme viewpoint. I don't see it as such. Some people truly don't want to hurt animals. others may practice Ahimsa which I am not sure even counts as religious.

the point is the morals of meat is murder, do no harm, all the same thing and tons of people who are not even religious sees such harmful actions as amoral. I didn't say it was exclusively atheist but that you can be an atheist and still have a strong moral conviction. I am not sure how it seems unrelated at all.

@waldo, the thread seems to have meandered left and right on the way to Albuquerque.