http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
afaik the egyptian muslim brotherhood is pro-democracy and nonviolent.
Egypt
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Egypt
If a caliphate is a democracy than yes 
The Islamic brotherhood's direct involvement in violent acts is debatable but what is not debatable is that it gave rise and birth to many violent fundamental islamic groups what is also not debatable is that they are not pro democracy.
They are only pro democracy in the sense that they want to allow the people to choose to create an Islamic state that will of course abolish democracy when it rises as part of the nature of an Islamic caliphate.
Just look at Iran, its a perfect example of a "democracy" ala Muslims brotherhood with the ayatollah as a supreme unelectable ruler only its the sunni version of it...
The Islamic brotherhood's direct involvement in violent acts is debatable but what is not debatable is that it gave rise and birth to many violent fundamental islamic groups what is also not debatable is that they are not pro democracy.
They are only pro democracy in the sense that they want to allow the people to choose to create an Islamic state that will of course abolish democracy when it rises as part of the nature of an Islamic caliphate.
Just look at Iran, its a perfect example of a "democracy" ala Muslims brotherhood with the ayatollah as a supreme unelectable ruler only its the sunni version of it...
Re: Egypt
Hitler was prodemocratic(brbww2), stalin was so-vjote (gulag or gtfinparty), even ayn renolds was pro-choice, either rapture or pressure lock.
Accept that people can vote shit, and that shit can be sticky once its voted.
Accept that people can vote shit, and that shit can be sticky once its voted.
Re: Egypt
Just look at the gaza strip...
USA led by bush insisted they have democratic elections...
Who was elected?
Hamas, a militant fundamentalist group that upon seizing control immediately inflicted violence upon its own population and killed all opposition(fatah movement).
There is only one good thing about hams being elected, More transparency.
It allowed to truly understand and see what the majority of Palestinians think and want.
The same will happen in Egypt.
Even if some oppressive group takes over, during the elections and up to it's final results we will all be able to see what the Egyptian people truly think and want.
ATM and for the past decades it has mostly been guess work and generally a mystery since there can be no true gathering of such information under a dictatorship that punishes criticism and expressions of dissent.
USA led by bush insisted they have democratic elections...
Who was elected?
Hamas, a militant fundamentalist group that upon seizing control immediately inflicted violence upon its own population and killed all opposition(fatah movement).
There is only one good thing about hams being elected, More transparency.
It allowed to truly understand and see what the majority of Palestinians think and want.
The same will happen in Egypt.
Even if some oppressive group takes over, during the elections and up to it's final results we will all be able to see what the Egyptian people truly think and want.
ATM and for the past decades it has mostly been guess work and generally a mystery since there can be no true gathering of such information under a dictatorship that punishes criticism and expressions of dissent.
Re: Egypt
:) gota, hamas winning had a lot to do with their humanitarian efforts and the corruption of fatah. I recall the violence was started by fatah in gaza. And look at the condition Israel is keeping Gaza in, its a bloody disaster area, most infrastructure destroyed in operation molten lead, and no import allowed. It's not surprising people have radical views.
Re: Egypt
the situation now is a result of the radical views not the other way around, the gaza operation was a result of hamas policy.
All hamas needs to do is stop aggression and stop shouting they want to destroy Israel if they dont Israel will keep the blockade on an entity that is hostile towards it according to international blockade rules..
Once they stop trying to attack israel there will be no blockade.
I remind you the blockade came after 8 years of shelling israeli territory around the gaza strip.
even now they sometimes shoot rockets...why?why risk a lot more lives just to send a few rockets Israel's way?because they dont think those lives are important enough, instead they are indirectly used to #1 as tools in the campaign to destroy Israel and as part of it a source of propaganda.
Humanist organizations and even more the European population cant grasp the fact that human lives may not mean much to Both the Palestinian leadership and to the majority of the Palestinians themselves so if so many Palestinians die it must be Israel's fault.
The Palestinian aggression is looked upon as an inevitable force of nature just dong its thing and cannot be blamed for it, while in reality the decisions made are mostly conscious ones.
Both the wall and the blockade were answers to threats posed by Palestinians.
The wall,a reaction to constant attempt of Palestinians to blow themselves up inside crowds of Israeli civilians, actually proved itself.
The blockade is yet again an answer to conscious Palestinian choices to keep the aggression going.
Fatah was indeed very corrupt, a lot of it had to do with how European "contributors" were blindly donating money allowing the good Palestinian leadership to distribute it amongst the population to which it constantly expressed its love.
In truth Yasser araft died as a super rich leader amongst a poor completely undeveloped population.
Even now when European donations are more carefully distributed they are actually a two sided coin both a tool to help development but also a carrot for the Palestinian leadership to live off donations and blaming Israel of all evils as oppose to actually developing a self sustaining economy.
If im not mistaken a recent research showed 60% of the pal income comes from donations and its economy has no legs.
for 67 years they have managed to remain at almost the same place they were in at the beginning with only one persistent goal that dates to Israel's declaration of independence,the destruction of the Zionist state.
All hamas needs to do is stop aggression and stop shouting they want to destroy Israel if they dont Israel will keep the blockade on an entity that is hostile towards it according to international blockade rules..
Once they stop trying to attack israel there will be no blockade.
I remind you the blockade came after 8 years of shelling israeli territory around the gaza strip.
even now they sometimes shoot rockets...why?why risk a lot more lives just to send a few rockets Israel's way?because they dont think those lives are important enough, instead they are indirectly used to #1 as tools in the campaign to destroy Israel and as part of it a source of propaganda.
Humanist organizations and even more the European population cant grasp the fact that human lives may not mean much to Both the Palestinian leadership and to the majority of the Palestinians themselves so if so many Palestinians die it must be Israel's fault.
The Palestinian aggression is looked upon as an inevitable force of nature just dong its thing and cannot be blamed for it, while in reality the decisions made are mostly conscious ones.
Both the wall and the blockade were answers to threats posed by Palestinians.
The wall,a reaction to constant attempt of Palestinians to blow themselves up inside crowds of Israeli civilians, actually proved itself.
The blockade is yet again an answer to conscious Palestinian choices to keep the aggression going.
Fatah was indeed very corrupt, a lot of it had to do with how European "contributors" were blindly donating money allowing the good Palestinian leadership to distribute it amongst the population to which it constantly expressed its love.
In truth Yasser araft died as a super rich leader amongst a poor completely undeveloped population.
Even now when European donations are more carefully distributed they are actually a two sided coin both a tool to help development but also a carrot for the Palestinian leadership to live off donations and blaming Israel of all evils as oppose to actually developing a self sustaining economy.
If im not mistaken a recent research showed 60% of the pal income comes from donations and its economy has no legs.
for 67 years they have managed to remain at almost the same place they were in at the beginning with only one persistent goal that dates to Israel's declaration of independence,the destruction of the Zionist state.
Last edited by Gota on 30 Jan 2011, 18:17, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Egypt
the bacon was there before egg and chicken. Israel and Palestine can ride the vicious-tandem-by-cycle for all eternity, but you know, israel actually has a choice, to get off, by researching how to get the other side educated, how to extinquish fanatic-religion, and how to get a economy going that doesent feed terrorism. Palestine doesent have that choice.
So the Balls are in GOTAs field. Game, Set.
So the Balls are in GOTAs field. Game, Set.
Re: Egypt
One of OUR citizens was executed in iran a few days ago, because of "drugs". What really happened is that she was demonstrating against the goverment. She had a dutch passport but was born in iran.
And what did our country do about it? No fucking thing, they just let it happen and didn't take any action. It's not dealth penalty, it's simply murder.
And what did our country do about it? No fucking thing, they just let it happen and didn't take any action. It's not dealth penalty, it's simply murder.
Re: Egypt
dont call it european contributors, the union didnt had any formal support, countrys like sweden and norway did in fact sent support to the arab league witch sent to palestine itself, when you hear in the news that the european union helps palestine its trou the united nations projects, the money comes from europe yes but not directly, first it goes to the Un then it gets distributed.Gota wrote:the situation now is a result of the radical views not the other way around, the gaza operation was a result of hamas policy.
All hamas needs to do is stop aggression and stop shouting they want to destroy Israel if they dont Israel will keep the blockade on an entity that is hostile towards it according to international blockade rules..
Once they stop trying to attack israel there will be no blockade.
I remind you the blockade came after 8 years of shelling israeli territory around the gaza strip.
even now they sometimes shoot rockets...why?why risk a lot more lives just to send a few rockets Israel's way?because they dont think those lives are important enough, instead they are indirectly used to #1 as tools in the campaign to destroy Israel and as part of it a source of propaganda.
Humanist organizations and even more the European population cant grasp the fact that human lives may not mean much to Both the Palestinian leadership and to the majority of the Palestinians themselves so if so many Palestinians die it must be Israel's fault.
The Palestinian aggression is looked upon as an inevitable force of nature just dong its thing and cannot be blamed for it, while in reality the decisions made are mostly conscious ones.
Both the wall and the blockade were answers to threats posed by Palestinians.
The wall,a reaction to constant attempt of Palestinians to blow themselves up inside crowds of Israeli civilians, actually proved itself.
The blockade is yet again an answer to conscious Palestinian choices to keep the aggression going.
Fatah was indeed very corrupt, a lot of it had to do with how European "contributors" were blindly donating money allowing the good Palestinian leadership to distribute it amongst the population to which it constantly expressed its love.
In truth Yasser araft died as a super rich leader amongst a poor completely undeveloped population.
Even now when European donations are more carefully distributed they are actually a two sided coin both a tool to help development but also a carrot for the Palestinian leadership to live off donations and blaming Israel of all evils as oppose to actually developing a self sustaining economy.
If im not mistaken a recent research showed 60% of the pal income comes from donations and its economy has no legs.
for 67 years they have managed to remain at almost the same place they were in at the beginning with only one persistent goal that dates to Israel's declaration of independence,the destruction of the Zionist state.
Europe is mentioned cause its the largest suplier of money to non nacional organization projects.
OFc i agree with all that you posted but i must disagree, if you recall anything that sadam was, he started his career as a syrian activist in a political party that wanted to unite the arab world and islam into one single country, in fact descedents of that party formed the so called muslim brotherwood, in egypt and syria, but it isnt possible for the arab world to unite, these so called groups cant work together, only groups funded by countrys like Iran and saudy arabia can survive when they get to power.
If war comes and israel does have another war with egypt, rest assured that the sues channel ill get ocupied one way or the other, either be by NATO, or israel.
We havent left the scenario yet, france has troups in Djybouty, that has borders with ethiopia and somalia.
You can call me a israel-suporter or whatever, but what my opinion is that israel did suffer a lot more than it was suposed to, everyone has the rigth to live and by no means i feel that they took the land of others,(even if taking unclaimed deserts is ilegal), but thats another conversation. Palestinians arent a seperate group the border countrys dont want anything to do with them, when they were welcomed in lebanon they wrecked havoc in the south, and indeed helped the hesbolah have the current power it has today.
You guys forget that the major interests in that area are the folowing:
Saudi arabia and Iran, they both fund theyr own political influenced partys, where do you think the guns and money come from, there is a semi political war between the two countrys. You migth say that hapens in lebanon but not in egypt wrong, egypt has borders with sudan, a country that harbours terrorists, where most organizations think that osama lives. Egypt is a staging ground for future things to come, though there are a lot of moderate people in the country without a voice.
Re: Egypt
I love how Fox News has to take an orgy break every 5 minutes when AMERRICUHH "spreads democracy", but when people overthrow their oppressors (wink wink) they're crazyass rebel terrorists, and undoubtedly part of the homosexual agenda.
Last edited by Caydr on 03 Feb 2011, 19:40, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Egypt
What we see, is actually peak oil. We turned to other seemingly available ressources to produce ethanol, resulting in the food overproduction to melt away like ice in climate-change. With prices skyrocketing, the peak-oil, which will continue to infect other markets before heading on with its death-march, leads to starvation based protest even in semi-stable countrys like Iran, Egypt or Tunesia.
So the choice we now face is Gasprice +$, because of new laws forbidding foodprocessing, or a v├Âlkerwanderung towards (relative) prosperity disguised as a revolution wildfire.
So the choice we now face is Gasprice +$, because of new laws forbidding foodprocessing, or a v├Âlkerwanderung towards (relative) prosperity disguised as a revolution wildfire.
Re: Egypt
unless countries quickly reach low population growth's stagnation or reduction in population everyone in future generations are gonna suffer badly(they will anyway now but less if population is capped soon).
Energy will cost more,food will cost more,living standards are gonna start equalizing between countries and will become lower...
The "green" GDP(i.e GDP plus taking into account the remaining environmental potential) is going down fast and countries are gonna get destabilized when their raw materials based economies will start collapsing like in Egypt taking western countries down with them.
Expect an ever increasing civil unrest in the western world in the coming decades as living standards will start dropping and the masses will be furious as the process continues without any real way of stopping it unless we somehow manage to find some new and amazing energy source who's existence nobody is able to predict now.
The consuming west ala the USA will be slowly wiped out and everyone will have to tighten their belts and become more efficient in their daily lives when it comes to spending resources.
I think great changes in the style of living will be imposed on everyone in the coming 2 centuries unless something extreme happens.
I guess at some point we will stop mass movement of population on a daily basis over great distances if its traveling between countries or even traveling to work,it will just be too much for the economy to bear and we will have to find alternative ways(except in special cases).
If the population will keep growing i guess there will be a much tighter control of water and food supplies either directly by the government or indirectly by increased prices of these basic commodities.
Energy will cost more,food will cost more,living standards are gonna start equalizing between countries and will become lower...
The "green" GDP(i.e GDP plus taking into account the remaining environmental potential) is going down fast and countries are gonna get destabilized when their raw materials based economies will start collapsing like in Egypt taking western countries down with them.
Expect an ever increasing civil unrest in the western world in the coming decades as living standards will start dropping and the masses will be furious as the process continues without any real way of stopping it unless we somehow manage to find some new and amazing energy source who's existence nobody is able to predict now.
The consuming west ala the USA will be slowly wiped out and everyone will have to tighten their belts and become more efficient in their daily lives when it comes to spending resources.
I think great changes in the style of living will be imposed on everyone in the coming 2 centuries unless something extreme happens.
I guess at some point we will stop mass movement of population on a daily basis over great distances if its traveling between countries or even traveling to work,it will just be too much for the economy to bear and we will have to find alternative ways(except in special cases).
If the population will keep growing i guess there will be a much tighter control of water and food supplies either directly by the government or indirectly by increased prices of these basic commodities.