New mapper: ffa over one spot

[dimm]

I have never made a map before but i came up with this idea that I just cant let go.

Four castles in four corners, just like in Castles, and a single very dense metal spot in the middle making up possibly 2/3 of the entire metal of the map. The players sit safely in their castles and constantly send units to try and hold the "chaotic arena center". If they fight off the current player they build a mex and try to defend it from the other players. I really hope this will mean that players need to spend the overwhelming portion of their time microing units. The size of the map, the distance between castles, and the quantity of metal in the center area are all up in the air.

I want the center to be impossible to fortify with hlts or more. For this i could only think of ramparts/walkways that give great artillery bombardment opportunities over the metal spot in the middle. Can type maps be used? How about knee deep water?

I think the players shouldn't shoot across castles at each other except with a buzsaw so removing lower lrpcs and the screamer before starting the game is a must. I also dont want to make the map too large.

I really don't want the players to spend much of their econ on building econ and for econ spent to attack and hold the center to pay itself back. Basically i don't want poking to be a viable option. That is why the center spot produces so much metal. I could just limit the space in a castle too.

Is there a map where a bunch of ffas fight over one spot? I bet lava high-ground doesn't work with this version of spring though i haven't tried it.

Ideas, opinions, recommendations?
Will this work? will it be fun? What should i name it?

Edit: Newest map: http://www.springfiles.com/show_file.php?id=2672

screen00006.png

(1.25 MiB) Downloaded 5 times

[Gota]

There are FFA maps that concentrate a lot of metal in the center..
One spot containing 2/3 of metal on the map...Might be fun but nobody is gonna do this map for you...Most mappers in spring make "averaged" maps without extreme features like the one you want...

[JohannesH]

1st off lava highground works as always


But your concept doesnt really make sense to me. 1 place to fight over, but then which nobody can realistically hold it, even more obviously so if its easily bombardable from some ramparts. So people will play passive pretty big portion of time.

And disabling units per map is just stupid and unimaginative usually, try to think of some more interesting and intuitive ways to discourage the playstyles you don't want to see.

[Pxtl]

So, in other words.

Castles.

Take a look at the tidal rate and the metal map of the lake on Castles.

[KaiserJ]

castles is okay... i think this sounds a bit different, and possibly better (IMO)

knee deep water, for instance, is a cool idea, because players wont be able to build any structures near the metal spot

for the buzz-saw thing, just make sure that the castle walls are high enough to block LRPCs (and thin enough to prevent them from being built up there) that should do the trick. also, no reason to make a full enclosure as it encourages porc, even a single wall or "L" shaped wall to protect against LRPC will do

I really don't want the players to spend much of their econ on building econ and for econ spent to attack and hold the center to pay itself back. Basically i don't want poking to be a viable option.

unfortunately, this is exactly what people will do... try to hide in the back and tech so that they can assault the metal spot around minute 20. there's no way to prevent this, just make sure the mega spot produces enough M to crank out a serious force, that way the porkers can be washed out of the game.

[AF]

No AI would be able to play this map because of a flaw in krogothes spot finding algorithm that all AIs use.

It would also be an epic rush to grab the center first followed by a quick defeat for those who failed to grab it.

[Google_Frog]

It would also be an epic rush to grab the center first followed by a quick defeat for those who failed to grab it.

Not necessarily. I recently played a lava high grounds game where in the first few minutes it was obvious to me that noone was going to mex the middle. I pulled right out of the middle and econed while the others wasted their resources fighting for no gain. Once someone in the middle gained the upper hand I had the econ to win.

I think this map will turn out similar.

[AF]

Interesting, though that depends how high the metal in the middle is, by which point if it is a large enough spot, a metal extractor will quickly pay for itself.

[dimm]

So here is the link:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=J2PIFN6R
its only 200kb because it uses only one texture and i will change that later. Also the central metal spot is off center but im tired. The map is small starts fast and probably ends fast too.

To gota: it will at least be a game concept test. Its done! SpringMapEdit made it for me. Currently the spot is 3/7 of total map metal.
to jh: The metal income is big so even the small time is worth it. Now there's one spot where the never ending action is. I cant think of anything and ur stupid.
to pxtl: um no, the econ is in the small pool that makes it really different
to kaiser: thx. The extractor has to be peaceable in a number of spots so mobile artillery cant just kill it. At the moment the way the map is i expect the game will end too quickly for lrpcs, although i need to test this.
to af: no, the ai is ok. The guy who grabbed first now has to fight off 3 ppl, Though this is a very valid point for 2 team games.

In ffa the bonus of reducing your one and only enemy through attacking doesnt exist. Moreover the player may be irritating someone they would never have fought. Therefore the metal in contestable area is greater. Also the map probably plays fast and theres some limit to defensible space.

[Gota]

Interesting, though that depends how high the metal in the middle is, by which point if it is a large enough spot, a metal extractor will quickly pay for itself.

A single big income Mex is also a very easy target for bombers as oppose to many small mexes scattered everywhere.

[AF]

It doesnt matter if the mex has gotten bombed if it can survive long enough to pay for itself, it would be a net gain.

[Gota]

It doesnt matter if the mex has gotten bombed if it can survive long enough to pay for itself, it would be a net gain.

Of course but that's the question...How long can it survive...If i know all i need to do to win is bomb that one metal spot every once in a while cause your only feeding from that one spot ill have an easy time this of course is relevant to ta mods where it rather easy to drop at least one load of bombs before a bomber dies.

[dimm]

Single bomber kills mex but gets killed. That is a net win for the mex maker. also he will put up the mex the next second and atm the mex pays for itself in 3 sec.

Please help me think of a name cause castle arena is not right. There needs to be an implication of lots of fighting in the middle.

Major issues:
The name.
Amount of metal in middle vs metal at start spots.
How to prevent fortification (or if it should be prevented)
How to keep the mex from being artilleried. Air bombed is actually ok because the bomrs are lost.

Minor questions:
Size of map
Size of plateaus
Defensability of the plateaus from all-terrain and lrpcs
Total metal (effectively its game speed)
Over how many metal spots should the metal be spread out(Moho Mex cost)


For the last 2 important questions i have three options:
Let the players try to fortify the center and allow many places to put the mex.
Let the players be able to artillery large portions of the middle from safety thus undermining the ability to fortify but therefore possibly make it unmexable.
Note. Current map is a combination of the above 2 with a third of the center being bombard-able from the safety of any plateu.

NEW IDEA: Using typemap or a small level of water make fortifying impossible. In the center is a mexable spot protected by huge natural walls. Unfortunately the typemap or water level might not work and neither might the walls against high trajectory artillery.

[Forboding Angel]

Why would you restrict arty from it? If you want it to be hotly contested, don't strip away one of the very few ways to take it.

[Google_Frog]

It doesnt matter if the mex has gotten bombed if it can survive long enough to pay for itself, it would be a net gain.

But it's not just the mex that is being killed. Everything spent on putting that mex in the centre and everything killed defending it must also be added to the cost when evaluating whether it has paid for itself.

[SirArtturi]

I could easily participate into arguing and bashing of this idea and concept but nah, I'll let you do the dirty work and keep my mouth shut

Instead I'll give you some ideas for your issues:

Major issues:
The name.
Amount of metal in middle vs metal at start spots.
How to prevent fortification (or if it should be prevented)
How to keep the mex from being artilleried. Air bombed is actually ok because the bomrs are lost.

-Castemania
-5m/sec in start spots and 15m/sec in middle
-It shouldnt be prevented. Only way one to win if the middle is lost... Don't take out the last resort!
-Make minor "fortifications" or "hills" to the middle so that they block some of the arty shots and permits the winner of the middle to hold in some reasonable way (in other words, to porc it) (geez, theres no reason to keep it undefendable or as a 247 battleground. nobody wouldn't bother or care to try to gain it if its undefendable. there will still be 3 guys bombing your ass and harrasing you after conquering the spot.)

Minor questions:
Size of map
Size of plateaus
Defensability of the plateaus from all-terrain and lrpcs
Total metal (effectively its game speed)
Over how many metal spots should the metal be spread out(Moho Mex cost)

-14x14
-plateaus? or the castles? castles shouldnt be too big to prevent too big ecowhoring)
-plateaus? castles as steep sided walls are very porcable and defendable as itself. You could take some inspiration from my map "folsomdamdeluxev3"
-total metal? 5m/castle dude... and maybe some additional metal spots around the castle... dunno
-3. Though 1 metal spot concept would work also in this kinda map. Actually I like 1 metal spot idea more...

For the last 2 important questions i have three options:
Let the players try to fortify the center and allow many places to put the mex.
Let the players be able to artillery large portions of the middle from safety thus undermining the ability to fortify but therefore possibly make it unmexable.
Note. Current map is a combination of the above 2 with a third of the center being bombard-able from the safety of any plateu.

I think i already gave my opinion to these issues.

NEW IDEA: Using typemap or a small level of water make fortifying impossible. In the center is a mexable spot protected by huge natural walls. Unfortunately the typemap or water level might not work and neither might the walls against high trajectory artillery.

Typemaps are rarely a good choice to prevent things.

[dimm]

http://www.springfiles.com/show_file.php?id=2672
Now with textures! only 1.31 mb! 4 m/s with ba per metal spot so 8 per plateau. Yes its a plateau. Please play test it with me!!
Its called Castle Well now but i may need a third word to describe it like attrition.

I really intend to work out the metal quantities, sizes, distances, natural defenses and targets after some play testing.

[Forboding Angel]

Take a screenshot.

[dimm]

how to post it?[img]screen00007.png[/img]

[Forboding Angel]

add -l to your compiler line to get rid of the heightmap contouring (HM Contouring will mess with unit pathing).