You can't buy any of those anymore though. The options are:
- Logitech ultracheap joystick with no hat switch or handle twist
- Logitech semicheap joystick with hat switch, handle twist, which nobody sells
- Logitech same-as-above but $90 with force feedback that breaks the sensors
- Saitek nobody-can-agree-what's-wrong-specifically-with-it-but-it's-definitely-bad
- CH flight stick from 1970, $100, makes up for ugly design with 11 hat switches
How hard can it be to make a joystick!? I think I'm just going to order a Cyborg X and buy some superglue to fix the never-adequately-described problem.
A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
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Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
you can disable force feedback
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Or get one without force feedback and pay $60 less.
Now shh, I'm the most recent poster on almost every thread now, you're disturbing my concentration.
Now shh, I'm the most recent poster on almost every thread now, you're disturbing my concentration.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
looking around, it appears the Cyborg X simply stops working or falls to pieces quickly... superglue doesn't work as well on parts that need to move.
someone recommended the Cyborg Evo while they were saying the Cyborg X sucked
someone recommended the Cyborg Evo while they were saying the Cyborg X sucked
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Yes I read that Amazon review too 
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Hes on a postspree, somebody stop him. Winbleedons Topictennis performed by Racketcrackhead.Caydr wrote:Yes I read that Amazon review too
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
buy 10 average joysticks, disassemble them and combine all the good parts from each other into 1 super joystick that will never break.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Capitalisms chochlate site, nothing will last forever (longer than 5 minutes) otherwise you are out of buisness.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
In people words: the joystick manufacturers that made things to last went out of business by virtue of their products not needing to be replaced on a regular basis. Yay capitalism, let's all move to Texas and molest goats, or if goats are unavailable, boys.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Those goats wont last long, specially when they are from texas. Oh, they dont make goatses like they used too in the good old days.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Whoaaa, Thrustmaster is still around? ...and they have some nice looking joysticks. Very Precision Pro-ish but with a big throttle handle... Priced reasonably too... ooo... is it wrong to feel this way about a joystick? Smoth better keep Panda away from these...
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Looka'thiss'ere mofo:
http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=153
4 buttons on top... check... hat switch... check... throttle... check... twist handle... check... wait, what's this? Holy shit, it's got magnets for sensors or something and green trim, I must have it.
And then there's this one too:
http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=149
badass fullsize throttle but not ambidextrous like the one above, not that I mind... Hmm.. Hmm...
And then this one....
http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=94
Decisions decisions... All three look pretty badass and have good feature sets... I guess I'll look for some reviews.
http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=153
4 buttons on top... check... hat switch... check... throttle... check... twist handle... check... wait, what's this? Holy shit, it's got magnets for sensors or something and green trim, I must have it.
And then there's this one too:
http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=149
badass fullsize throttle but not ambidextrous like the one above, not that I mind... Hmm.. Hmm...
And then this one....
http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=94
Decisions decisions... All three look pretty badass and have good feature sets... I guess I'll look for some reviews.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
So, the cool-looking one with the green and the magnets looks like it could be a pretty solid choice. Apparently the magnet-based movement detection system is a lot more accurate than a conventional system and makes stick movement very low-resistance so you can be more precise.
However, it only came out in late 2009, so it's hard to say for certain whether it will be reliable or not. Thrustmaster's reputation for joysticks is apparently no better than Logitech's or Saitek's now, in terms of expected useful lifespan.
The "HOTAS" one with the big throttle control has no hat switch so it's not a possibility.
The Flight Stick X is cheaper than fancy/magnet/green and has roughly equivalent review scores. It's also about a year older and I haven't found any people complaining about it breaking.
Saitek as a whole is out of the running due to quality issues and/or product ugliness, across their entire line.
As usual the geek in me is probably going to make the final decision, and that frictionless magnet-based sensor thing sounds pretty cool. It comes with HAWX which I've been meaning to buy anyway too. If it doesn't work out, I'll pick up a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and content myself with a life of disposable peripherals...
However, it only came out in late 2009, so it's hard to say for certain whether it will be reliable or not. Thrustmaster's reputation for joysticks is apparently no better than Logitech's or Saitek's now, in terms of expected useful lifespan.
The "HOTAS" one with the big throttle control has no hat switch so it's not a possibility.
The Flight Stick X is cheaper than fancy/magnet/green and has roughly equivalent review scores. It's also about a year older and I haven't found any people complaining about it breaking.
Saitek as a whole is out of the running due to quality issues and/or product ugliness, across their entire line.
As usual the geek in me is probably going to make the final decision, and that frictionless magnet-based sensor thing sounds pretty cool. It comes with HAWX which I've been meaning to buy anyway too. If it doesn't work out, I'll pick up a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and content myself with a life of disposable peripherals...
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Whoops, sorry about that, quinta-- hexapost was genuinely unintentional. Well... not this last one, but I'm being honest so that makes up for it.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
are you drunk again
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
On love. Joystick love.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Ahoy there. Since there seem to be other people in the same boat as me, I thought I'd share my findings.
My Thrustmaster T.1600M arrived today and I just finished calibrating it. I have to say, it's really true what they say about it being on a whole different scale of precision compared to other joysticks I've used.
Because there aren't any springs or other mechanisms pushing/pulling on the X/Y axis or anything like that, there's a really great feeling like you're not fighting against the hardware. The only spring in the whole mechanism is a single heavy-duty (2.8mm dia) one that pushes straight up against the bottom of the stick, to bring it back to the center point.
Movement is incredibly smooth, and this is achieved by a fairly cutting-edge (AFAIK, at least for joysticks) technique called the "Hall Effect". The dummy explanation I prefer is something like, "there's a magnet on the bottom of the stick and sensors measure the magnetic field, rather than the position of the stick itself." Plus, and possibly even more importantly, the stick has a snazzy green light on it.
During calibration (in W7 anyway) you can view the raw input data the joystick is sending. While I wasn't able to actually move, for instance, exactly one point in the X axis, I was able to move in much smaller amounts than my Logitech Cordless Freedom, and needless to say the X360 pad wasn't even in the running as far as accuracy goes - bloody things need to have a 17% deadzone when brand new!
After calibration, the throttle lever and handle twist also worked very well, reaching 100% or 0% almost exactly where they should without a lot of slop.
I have complaints though. For the sake of making the joystick ambidextrous, they didn't include a button on the thumbrest, as I've grown accustomed to. Also, the three buttons on the top of joystick feel pretty sloppy. They wiggle around a little bit and are a letdown compared to the quality of the rest of the joystick. The hat switch works as you'd expect, no problem there, and the trigger is excellent.
There are 12 buttons on the base of the joystick, although in all likelihood you'll only ever use 6 of them (again, it's an ambidextrous thing). I have no complaints with them, they feel reasonably well-constructed and firmly in place.
My final complaint with the joystick is a bit more serious - when you move the stick to the "forward-right", "back-right", and "back-left" directions, there's a bit of a bump, as if the stick or internal mechanism is hitting something and it can't fully reach the corner you're trying for.
If what I just said was hard to understand, picture a 10 foot square with a 6 inch circle drawn, centered, above each of the following: the bottom left point of the square, the bottom right point of the square, and the top right point of the square. The affected area isn't very large and you can still *almost* hit the corner, but not quite.
As the joystick has only just been released a few months ago, I can't make any predictions about how long it might last. However, in all my searching I came across very, very few people complaining about problems with Thrustmaster products. One definite positive is that the Hall Effect thing means there should be a lot less of the moving parts that typically break down first.
They are also a very, very old company... I think they've changed hands once or twice, but I still have a little extra confidence in a company's products when (IIRC) one of their joysticks had a default profile in the original Descent (1995).
As one final anecdote, you can apparently buy two of these, set one up as ambidextrous, and really truly **** some shit up in Mechwarrior.
Overall I'd rate the joystick an 9/10, however in light of the drought of PC joysticks, let alone ones that aren't widely known to break after a few weeks or months, I think it's a 9.5/10. The problems are relatively minor in light of the overall build quality and accurate response.
edit: Forgot to mention, the weight feels right on the money, it won't tilt if you make a sudden turn or anything.
My Thrustmaster T.1600M arrived today and I just finished calibrating it. I have to say, it's really true what they say about it being on a whole different scale of precision compared to other joysticks I've used.
Because there aren't any springs or other mechanisms pushing/pulling on the X/Y axis or anything like that, there's a really great feeling like you're not fighting against the hardware. The only spring in the whole mechanism is a single heavy-duty (2.8mm dia) one that pushes straight up against the bottom of the stick, to bring it back to the center point.
Movement is incredibly smooth, and this is achieved by a fairly cutting-edge (AFAIK, at least for joysticks) technique called the "Hall Effect". The dummy explanation I prefer is something like, "there's a magnet on the bottom of the stick and sensors measure the magnetic field, rather than the position of the stick itself." Plus, and possibly even more importantly, the stick has a snazzy green light on it.
During calibration (in W7 anyway) you can view the raw input data the joystick is sending. While I wasn't able to actually move, for instance, exactly one point in the X axis, I was able to move in much smaller amounts than my Logitech Cordless Freedom, and needless to say the X360 pad wasn't even in the running as far as accuracy goes - bloody things need to have a 17% deadzone when brand new!
After calibration, the throttle lever and handle twist also worked very well, reaching 100% or 0% almost exactly where they should without a lot of slop.
I have complaints though. For the sake of making the joystick ambidextrous, they didn't include a button on the thumbrest, as I've grown accustomed to. Also, the three buttons on the top of joystick feel pretty sloppy. They wiggle around a little bit and are a letdown compared to the quality of the rest of the joystick. The hat switch works as you'd expect, no problem there, and the trigger is excellent.
There are 12 buttons on the base of the joystick, although in all likelihood you'll only ever use 6 of them (again, it's an ambidextrous thing). I have no complaints with them, they feel reasonably well-constructed and firmly in place.
My final complaint with the joystick is a bit more serious - when you move the stick to the "forward-right", "back-right", and "back-left" directions, there's a bit of a bump, as if the stick or internal mechanism is hitting something and it can't fully reach the corner you're trying for.
If what I just said was hard to understand, picture a 10 foot square with a 6 inch circle drawn, centered, above each of the following: the bottom left point of the square, the bottom right point of the square, and the top right point of the square. The affected area isn't very large and you can still *almost* hit the corner, but not quite.
As the joystick has only just been released a few months ago, I can't make any predictions about how long it might last. However, in all my searching I came across very, very few people complaining about problems with Thrustmaster products. One definite positive is that the Hall Effect thing means there should be a lot less of the moving parts that typically break down first.
They are also a very, very old company... I think they've changed hands once or twice, but I still have a little extra confidence in a company's products when (IIRC) one of their joysticks had a default profile in the original Descent (1995).
As one final anecdote, you can apparently buy two of these, set one up as ambidextrous, and really truly **** some shit up in Mechwarrior.
Overall I'd rate the joystick an 9/10, however in light of the drought of PC joysticks, let alone ones that aren't widely known to break after a few weeks or months, I think it's a 9.5/10. The problems are relatively minor in light of the overall build quality and accurate response.
edit: Forgot to mention, the weight feels right on the money, it won't tilt if you make a sudden turn or anything.
Last edited by Caydr on 27 Apr 2010, 20:34, edited 1 time in total.
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
I was wondering why they didn't use non mechanical rotation sensors in joysticks previously. Maybe because they cost a bit more to manufacture and design? Hall effect sounds like the most reliable and quite cheap way of doing it.
I also never got why they didn't slap a capacitor across the potentiometer in mechanical joysticks. Ive repaired a fair few sticks with small spray of wd40 and a capacitor across the center and one extreme of the joystick with a capitance value where R*C=0.1 (adds a small, nearly undetectable amount of lag, but works great when the rotating contact starts to wear out).
I also never got why they didn't slap a capacitor across the potentiometer in mechanical joysticks. Ive repaired a fair few sticks with small spray of wd40 and a capacitor across the center and one extreme of the joystick with a capitance value where R*C=0.1 (adds a small, nearly undetectable amount of lag, but works great when the rotating contact starts to wear out).
Re: A high quality joystick that doesn't FUBAR from regular use?
Left one more thing out. There's a switch on the bottom of the joystick which effectively mirrors the assignment of the 12 buttons on the base. However, you CAN use all the buttons at any time, so if you have functions that are used relatively rarely, you can still keep them on the joystick rather than keyboard. You'd have to let go of the stick or move your left hand to the right side temporarily, but it's still nice. I was afraid they'd just be disabled if they weren't on the proper side.
I can imagine them being useful for things like assigning energy distribution in space sims, for example... you usually only need to adjust those once or twice per mission.
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The smoothness of the stick motion is really, really something. I've used joysticks before where the stick likes to move along an axis and it takes a little extra effort to get it to move in another direction at the same time.
...That's sorta vague.. how to put this... You can move the stick to the left and right, or up and down, but moving in two axes at the same time sort of doubles the amount of pressure you have to put on the stick. Basically, the resistance as you move the stick isn't perfectly linear as you move it away from the center. Not so with this one from Thrustmaster though. I confess I haven't used it in a game YET (only got it yesterday) but I'm going to definitely dig out FS2 and Tie Fighter (maybe XWA) when I get back from the hospital later.
I can imagine them being useful for things like assigning energy distribution in space sims, for example... you usually only need to adjust those once or twice per mission.
-----
The smoothness of the stick motion is really, really something. I've used joysticks before where the stick likes to move along an axis and it takes a little extra effort to get it to move in another direction at the same time.
...That's sorta vague.. how to put this... You can move the stick to the left and right, or up and down, but moving in two axes at the same time sort of doubles the amount of pressure you have to put on the stick. Basically, the resistance as you move the stick isn't perfectly linear as you move it away from the center. Not so with this one from Thrustmaster though. I confess I haven't used it in a game YET (only got it yesterday) but I'm going to definitely dig out FS2 and Tie Fighter (maybe XWA) when I get back from the hospital later.