small divide

[Gota]

I remember someone telling me there is a version of small divide or a map that strongly resembles small divide where kbots cannot cross the mountains.
Does anyone know of such a map?

Iv tried small divide remake v1 and classic none of them are like that.

[knorke]

http://www.springfiles.com/show_file.php?id=333
?

[Pxtl]

Note that Hells Pass uses a void type to prevent structures or all-terrain bots from climbing over the high hills. This is counterintuitive to the player (who assumes that spiders can negotiate any terrestrial surface) and is a Bad Thing.

[Gota]

Note that Hells Pass uses a void type to prevent structures or all-terrain bots from climbing over the high hills. This is counterintuitive to the player (who assumes that spiders can negotiate any terrestrial surface) and is a Bad Thing.

I dont think its a bad thing...what if you dont want all terrain to be part of the gameplay?
And i did not mean this map i mean a small one just like small divide.

[Pxtl]

Because it's non-obvious to the player - it looks like a mountain. It's an invisible wall, which should generally be avoided for gameplay reasons.

[Beherith]

I dont think a mapper should limit his repertoire just because of a case that only arises on the first run of a map. Hell, in a lot of other games you dont even see anything of of a map your running for the first time except the minimap. And also, if the description of the map includes this simple string: "Dividing mountain is impassable to all" then this whole problem is averted.

You cant fix stupid users, but you shouldnt dumb yourself down just to accomodate them.

[Gota]

I agree.
Its interesting to make maps that emphasize different units and different gameplay.
I do think that limiting movement and construction can be used in a good or a bad way.

[luckywaldo7]

Although if there happened to be a game where one faction had all-terrain units that could not pass the mountains and the other faction had jumping units that could jump over the mountains, it would really screw with faction balance.

Not that the mapper necessarily needs to care about a game he is not designing for, just that the issue is more complex than "stupid users".

[Pxtl]

@ Beherith

This is why nobody plays anything but DSD. New maps are full of bad surprises that are invisible to the user. Want to use Void where it's not expected? Put something graphical to show it's impassible, like spawning tonnes of Lua smoke or something. Or just use voidwater and drop a chasm with fog at the bottom.

Ditto typemaps. Many players have no idea of the existence of the typemaps - your maps are better because most of the roads are clearly marked as roads, but many maps aren't.

[Gota]

I dont understand...
You say dsd is played so much cause its easy to understand while other maps contain surprises but DSD itself has a typemap...Many players don't know about it.

[luckywaldo7]

I dont understand...
You say dsd is played so much cause its easy to understand while other maps contain surprises but DSD itself has a typemap...Many players don't know about it.

They are used to playing with it.

[Pxtl]

Yah, what lucky said. DSD has its own bad surprises, but players have learned them all.

[Beherith]

Although if there happened to be a game where one faction had all-terrain units that could not pass the mountains and the other faction had jumping units that could jump over the mountains, it would really screw with faction balance.

Not that the mapper necessarily needs to care about a game he is not designing for, just that the issue is more complex than "stupid users".

Do I want to open this can of beans again? A bit:
If a mod doesnt respect no movement zones, then there is no justification for complaining.

Edit: Also, a non stupid player should realize that some maps do work better with specific factions. Its part of becoming a pro.
You cant expect every player to be able to utilize such depth to his advantage.

[Gota]

Yah, what lucky said. DSD has its own bad surprises, but players have learned them all.

Makes no sense.
When DSD was a new map it had these surprises just like it does now and it became pop.
These "surprises" don't bother new players they bother old players that are are bored and are looking what to whine about which is natural.
New players or just casual players dont mind typemaps,some don't even know they exist.

[luckywaldo7]

If a mod doesnt respect no movement zones, then there is no justification for complaining.

A typemap isn't a no-movement zone, there currently no good way to make a no movement zone, but you already know that far better than I do.

Edit: Also, a non stupid player should realize that some maps do work better with specific factions. Its part of becoming a pro. You cant expect every player to be able to utilize such depth to his advantage.

How obvious the problem, to any skill level, had nothing to do with my post. I was just pointing out that a map such as Gota's suggested would probably not work as intended with some possible game mechanics.

[Gota]

When did i suggest anything?I merely asked about the existence of a map which by the way has no lua or typemap restriction just steep mountains where ta kbots cant pass.

[Beherith]

If a mod doesnt respect no movement zones, then there is no justification for complaining.

A typemap isn't a no-movement zone, there currently no good way to make a no movement zone, but you already know that far better than I do.

No movement means no units can move there, nothing more, nothing less. A typemap of 0 is precisely the definition of a no movement zone.

[knorke]

i know of no other similiar map.
did you look through springfiles?
You could sort by mapsize and only look at the small ones but I have never seen such a map.

[SirArtturi]

Yah, what lucky said. DSD has its own bad surprises, but players have learned them all.

Makes no sense.
[...]

Hehe. Yeah Exactly!
Did you realize how you just disproved your point?

I gotta agree with Behe and Gota, if my agreement is any worth to you...

What needs to be done - if such void or restrictions is to be used - is to indicate it visually, and that for the most case is lacking, and causes confusion...

To add: DSD has many suprises that first timer has to figure out just by finding them out. Theres basically nothing indicating that the map has (1) typemap, that speeds up certain units, (2) unpassable areas for certain unit types (3) unbuildable terrain for some structures (4) different map hardnesses + many more.

Stating that popularity of dsd is based on argument you made is utterly nonsense.

Most of the maps have similiar invisible obstacles that player needs to figure out by himself, whether it is part of the concept/design, or gameplay or just some minor definitions or parametres.

It's called learning to play a map...

Easy going map is not a bulletproof success, but rather the maps that has steep learning curve.

[Tribulex]

Bad Thing

:D


Whats wrong with small divide that is passable? Thats where all the fun is, walking rockos, thuds, and a com over the hills.